10 for the Designers: Episode 06

Transcript — every row opens the video at that moment

1. 00:00:01

   [Music] Hi guys, welcome to 10 for the designers. My name is Randy Bassos. I'm a tech designer. Uh my name is Kirk Toé. I'm a senior technical designer here at Cloud Imperium Games. So, first of all, we'd like to thank the subscribers for making this show possible and for us actually being able to like share extra information with you guys on what we've been doing. So, we have some questions. We'll see if we can get them answered. Yeah, this is uh exciting for us because this is our first uh stab at this particular um show and uh yeah uh but we hope to have a lot of fun with it and uh we're going to enjoy um this direct interaction with the uh the subscribers and the community. Uh this question is from Willie Pete. Uh it's specifically

2. 00:00:49

   about the Jean Scout. Um so the spec sheet has almost no information for the Jean Scout. He's right. Um could can you please give us some of the basics uh such as weapon loadout, max speed, size of components like shields, generators, etc. Um it is built as uh a scout explorer. What jump point size can it go through and how is that implemented in the ship? Uh the pictures only show the cockpit and not any interior space. Um what are we looking at if anything for the interior space? Okay. So, uh quite a few questions about uh the ship and um we do have some of the specs uh uh determined. Um these are um going into what we call the white box phase. It's the very first phase of the ship

3. 00:01:36

   implement implementation where we take um the raw geometry for the ship and then um try to do things like determine where the thrusters go, how that's going to um actually um make the ship handle uh in space. Um because of our new uh internal um and physicalized ship components, we're determining the sizes of those and where they can actually go onto the ship itself as well. Uh so to answer some of the questions um the uh the ship is going to have uh two size three lasers uh for sure. Um looking into possibly putting another set of size two lasers up on the top of the ship to give it some extra armament. Um there's going to be one uh medium shield. Um it's a rather large ship uh when um it is it is open and flying. So,

4. 00:02:28

   we wanted to give it some u additional uh protection from um you know forward- facing uh shots. Uh it's going to have two possibly four um small power plants and um much like the Herold is going to have um it's going to have one uh small jump drive. Um because it is smaller than I believe the Endeavor um it is going to be able to you utilize any size jump uh size jump point. So, it can use any jump point. Um, and uh, it won't have any trouble using any of the jump points in the uh, in the PU. Uh, its top speed is going to be 270 uh, meters/s. This is as opposed to the Hornets's 200 m/ second. So, it's going to be a very fast maneuverable ship. Um, there is no interior space plan. Um, so much like

5. 00:03:19

   the Hornet, it's going to be a um a fighter type of um spacecraft and so there's no internal um uh internal space that is planned for the ship itself. So I hope that answers the questions about the the scout solless regarding modularity of the Caterpillar. Some elements of the design like the repair and salvage shop for example seems to need external access to outer space. Others like the crew module would ideally not have that exposure. Will there be limitations on what order the modules can be assembled in order to have the correct access to the air lock and the forward module or will these have modular units have their own external airlocks so that they can be assembled without order restrictions? So talking with a lot of the designers we've kind of discussed that like each

6. 00:04:06

   module is going to be designed with a thought that it'll need to be interfaced with all the other modules around it. And basically, so some of the modules will have the extra air lock. Um, some of them are going to have will directly open up to the outside like we talked about like the clam shells kind of just open up a little bit so that way um things can be like set up like the ramp. Mhm. I think you helped me out I think with some of the the modules kind of looking how they would kind of fit in with the other ones. Sure. Um, so like we played around with the concept of like the side opening, the whole side being turned into a ramp. And so there's going to be some restrictions. Um, like the for instance, the front module is going to have it set up to where only the front module can be changed out with front modules and then the other modules are all basically the same modules that can go in there and then um the players can basically just

7. 00:04:56

   make their choice of what modules are there. Sure. But it seems like it's going to be less of like a a Lego type of system and more of a these are the uh particular module types that can go into this bay of the the ship itself. Yeah. And that's one of the things we played with like we had some ideas of making a restriction where we had some other ideas where like you know what if the player just wants to put in all personnel modules let them you know and then kind of so we're still up in the air about whether we're going to let them just do whatever they want or set it to be pure restrictions. So, it kind of answers the question, but we're still thinking about it and we have a lot of modules planned. So, so beer for the beer god um nice name um asked um at what stage of development is thruster placement, thruster power, mass distribution and other elements related

8. 00:05:45

   to flight integrated? Um how far along the process does a ship go before it or effects of the ship is flown for the first time? Um dead weight responded with good question. Uh, how will ships like the Jean Scout um which is all thrusters handle against a ship like the Cutless, which is um which has fewer but more powerful thrusters? Is there a blank ship that can um have variable mass and variable thrusters thrown all about it um to take a dry run of the ship before the uh design is finalized? This is a great question. Um so um Randy uh is also uh involved in implementing uh ships and so he has some experience in this as well. But uh our flight system um uses the the mass and the actual u physics of physics bounds of

9. 00:06:32

   the ship uh along with its center of mass to determine um what its flight characteristics are. um our thruster placement and um the thruster um the output of the thrusters um what uh angles of attack the thrusters can actually influence um and other variables like our turning speed um for the or like the actual spinning speed of the ship um are variables that we can all play with. Um but to the uh the end result of all this is that we can take a cube and make it fly um and we can place thrusters on it um how we want um and um fortunately we don't have to get to that step. Typically we do have uh the the white box model that we can take as a

10. 00:07:22

    reference. Um we physicalize it. So we put actual um uh geometry that determines its physical bounds and then we um position the thrusters um based on the concept and see how it actually flies. Um we can do things like take um uh actually nudge the actual uh thrusters themselves so that they can influence the the mass of the ship better. Um but all this stuff is is possible without having uh any finalized geometry. So, um, we can actually figure out what the ship is going to fly like before having something that's anywhere close to final. Um, and so that helps a lot in determining what the ship's flight characteristics is going to be. What was what's been your experience with that? Um, so Catacle that I've been

11. 00:08:11

    working on, you helped me out with the we're looking at the thruster placement on that and then trying to get it and one of the things that we had issues with was it's the asymmetric of it asymmetricalness. Mhm. So the asymmetry of it basically when we had placed the original thrusters like that thing was just like flying all over the place and it was like so hard to control. Right. And then so like we were trying you were helping me like trying to like adjust some of the things. So Right. And something uh that Randy uh discussed with me earlier was that uh the mass distribution does take does play an important part in the flight characteristics of a ship. And so asymmetrical ships with mass that is um that aren't that isn't quite um balanced makes it a challenge to to have uh the ship fly straight um and in a way that

12. 00:09:00

    you kind of need the ship to fly uh the ship to fly so that you can actually um make it do what you want to do in space. the the ballast also like the ballast controls and everything that we were trying to like start getting on board and online like that would with the asymmetrical ships like that would help out big time. Even the regular ships like once the ballast gameplay and everything gets in stuff. So like if you're using so much ammo then the ammo goes away ballast like filling in for that and adjusting to where it needs or whatever. Yep. We'll eventually uh be able to do things like uh put ballast in places of the ship. Here's a secret. Uh the um the uh Vandal ships are completely faked as far as the their their balance because the wings um are so large that they make the flight

13. 00:09:49

    characteristics difficult to balance. And so cheated a little bit on the wings. Um and uh this is especially true in the case of the um the scythe. uh because of its its large right wing and it's rather minuscule left wing uh we needed to uh kind of cheat the system so that uh the the uh the flight model thinks that u both of them weigh the same therefore it'll find a straight line otherwise it would just be this this crazy thing that you could not control and so um but you know rest assured we're using real physics um to actually make the ships fly in space can the command module we're talking about the caterpillar reattach in the field space or will we need to somehow get the main body towed back to port.

14. 00:10:37

    So, um the command module is actually being designed as like a kind of escape pod or like a quick getaway and it's going to have limited um QT capabilities. It's going to be able to dock and redock with the main hole of the ship. So, the reason why to undock or to redock is basically up to the crew. And one of the ideas I had was basically to hit like a baton pass with the main hole of the ship. And we had discussed this um earlier about like um you gave me the example of like the 18-wheeler. Do you want to explain? Well, it's actually yours. Why don't you just explain cuz cuz it's it's it's a great analogy and I think I think it really um it really illustrates how this whole mechanical work. Yeah. So basically taking like a 18-wheeler ship, right? or 18-wheeler today and it has like the main cabin that drives the

15. 00:11:26

    engine and then you have the actual like the back part the rear part of it. So basically just detaching that main cabin part and then having popping up the 18-wheeler part or the rear another one can just pop right in. So you can play like potato with it kind of like all right well now I'm controlling it I'm taking it in this leg of the journey I'm taking it this leg of the journey and stuff even swapping cargo or whatever like just the different it works within the different variants but the gameplay is still pending so we'll see how all that works cuz you had mentioned like all the security stuff that need to be done. Yeah, I think uh something we need to to think about is uh because you can hot swap these these command modules, we want to put in some kind of security measures so that um you couldn't just pirate one away uh without at least a little bit of effort. Um and

16. 00:12:14

    um so, you know, we're we're actively discussing these types of things and uh hopefully we'll have these systems online when the when the ship is actually available to fly. Okay. Uh, next question comes from Zodiac Medicay. Um, another cool name. Um, is it difficult to do hanger ready designs for concepts that are not fully fleshed out yet? Uh, I would constantly second guess myself with interface design on stuff like ew consoles. Yes and no. Um while it is difficult to design um interfaces for uh components um that haven't been fleshed out yet um the the happy answer for us is that we don't need to. Um so what what we do is we determine the um the actual uh

17. 00:13:03

    physical sizes of the screens that are going to serve as the bed for the uh the actual interaction. Um then the team that is responsible for doing this interaction such as ew or other things such as uh ship power management um in any of the stations that we have um they they get to work actually designing out the systems and interface along with the UI team for how that's going to work. We basically have a big blank canvas that we just need to position um and make useful within the ship. So that part of it is rather easy. We designed the space so that the player can um take that station and then um the magic of the design system once it comes online uh simply shows up on that screen and the player is able to interact with that. So

18. 00:13:52

    um kind of roundabout answer to your question, but I hope that that serves to describe how we do um our ship interior design when we're in the white box phase. Yeah, I mean the two ships that I've worked on that I'm working on so far was like, you know, the Star Liner, which had a whole another host of just interior designs and layouts that we went through, like all those iterations and which you guys should have already hopefully seen. Um, and then hopefully next I'll be able to actually show them all the interior layouts and designs for the Caterpillar cuz right all the all the interiors are crazy and making sure that they fit within the FPS metrics and then making sure that they are fitting for like the hull of the ship, the exterior and making sure it just matches with the ship itself. Just it is a blank canvas. It sometimes gets a little

19. 00:14:41

    overwhelming because especially at start like starting you're like what what what can I do with this? Right? But you know uh so you know there's there's going to be systems that we haven't designed yet um because of the the particular type of uh responsibility that the caliper is going to have. But we know that we need to make a station for uh doing um say the cargo management. Um we know that we have a 16x9 space that we need to fill the screen with um when the player is man at that station. So, we designed that space um and um when the uh that particular uh gameplay um is flushed out with this UI, it'll just magically overlay onto that space that we've already set aside for that particular mechanic. Yeah. Well, some of the stuff we've already talked about with like multi crew and everything and then working with the designers in UK,

20. 00:15:28

    working with like Zay and everything for um just all the different screens, the seats, the functions of those seats, what each one kind of does, like all that stuff's really starting to come on board. So hopefully when you guys actually get to play with more of the multicrew stuff, then you'll be able to see a lot more of the designs actually come alive and stuff like that and we can keep kind of just pushing the envelope of what we want for the intention of what like Star Citizen is, you know? Right. Good plug. When I when I say UI, I really mean Zane. I have a question from um beer for the beer god as well. Both the Herald and Caterpillar advertise as being intended for various pirate purposes. A common example is the Herald jamming signals while the Caterpillar with Cutless Export does the dirty work. How do both of you how do both of you envision piracy to work within Star Citizen? And

21. 00:16:16

    how have you designed the Herod and Caterpillar in accordance with that understanding? The Caterpillar in particular was always designed as a search and rescue, right? Then the other variants when they were starting to be designed and concepted, that's when it was taken to like, oh, well, it could do this, it could do this, and it was always kind of designed to support and work in tandem with the other um Drake ships. So, it kind of started with that. So basically talking with a lot of the other designers and seeing what they were because like um I think you and Sherman were actually working on the Herald for a bit. Yep. As far as the internal components and whatnot. Yeah. So then like I got a chance to look at the look at that look at the components they're doing and then look at the intent of that and then kind of just build in stuff right to Caterpillar to kind of work with those guys. So, can't

22. 00:17:04

    really talk about too much gameplay yet because it's still being designed and whenever when I'm actually able to show them the actual interior spaces and talk about more of the Caterpillar designs, then I'll be able to get more information. But yeah, they are built with the intention to support one another. Um, and like the example I gave you earlier was like I really see the Herold running close support and being really close to like the caterpillar where the caterpillar is kind of being like the main the main person of the formation and then having like cutlesses kind of sim around them, right? and like just being like support and dropping in and taking out. So that way they can do like they can do the quick um dash and grabs and stuff like that and then store it right on the on the caterpillar as well as kind of blanket the area for like just eore stuff, right? And piracy seems to be a very popular topic. Um and

23. 00:17:54

    uh truth is we're still ironing out a lot of the details. Uh but rest assured whenever we um we're designing any systems for these ships uh because of how um pirate ccentric this ship is uh that's always um at the forefront of any of the designs that we implement for the ship. Um okay, next question is from Mount OG Bogei. Okay. There seems to be a disparity in ship weights compared to what's represented in the model and XML values etc. a ship that is big on the exterior but is mostly on the inside but weighs as much as it looks like from the outside um and ships that are smaller and ted to have armor obviously solid or densely packed that weigh less than slightly bigger hollow ships. Is there

24. 00:18:42

    going to be a standard metric to determining the ship weights based on the volume the ship takes up and the possible list of materials the ship would be made out of? Great question. Um and I'm gonna be honest with you all. Um this is all currently a guess. So all of our ship masses at the moment are rough estimates based on the um typically the the general bounds of that the ship takes up. So it's volume um the we don't currently have solid metrics for um the actual physical space um and therefore the mass um would would be represented in the ship. Um there's also um material densities that we have we haven't quite figured out yet. Um that is coming down the pike. Um but until

25. 00:19:30

    then we it's kind of all eyeballed. So hopefully in the future we'll be able to get uh more more concrete metrics for all of these um all these masses and densities and whatnot to determine more realistic uh values of ships. Um this will be especially important when uh ballast and especially cargo come online. So cargo itself is going to be a um they're obviously going to take up space and mass and they will change the characteristics the flight characteristic of ships when you are laden with um a bunch of cargo especially on ships that can take on a bunch like you know massive amounts such as the constellation huge huge cargo bay when it's full of um really massive uh boxes of stuff the flight

26. 00:20:19

    characteristics going to change. How will they change? That's that's what we're terming now. So, um that will come someday soon. Um and when we figure that out, um I think we'll have a little bit more um uh realistic values for all the masses of our one of the one of the things like you mentioned the constellation. And one of the things is whenever we get cargo up and running and then that adds extra weight mass the center of mass changes on the ships. So the thrusters will have to be smart enough to adjust you know. And then again going back to asymmetrical ships like my Caterpillar like um we had talked all that cargo will be in the front of the ship and then all the weight for like fuel and everything else will be in the back of the ship. So when it's empty the center of mass is actually closer to engineering but then when all the cargo is there then the

27. 00:21:07

    mass changes by like like a good almost 10 meters. Sure. It changes. So it's going to be interesting once we get that on board. Sure. Sure. And once all this stuff is working, uh it will uh help incentivize us to better design uh interchangeable thrusters so that hey, maybe you do need um like uh thrusters that have slightly slower attack but are able to move more mass efficiently, especially across the uh uh you know long long stretches of space. That will um encompass the PU gameplay for for moving tons of cargo. Yeah, cargo is going to be very encompassing for all the stuff we have like with mining and salvaging and repair and all that stuff. Yep. Cool. So, I have a question that actually multiple people asked. Can the Caterpillar stretch or contract with

28. 00:21:55

    more or less modules? So, as of right now, the design is to not stretch. It's not going to be like one of the whole series. It's basically going to be the modules um the modules will fit within there. So, like right now I think six modules. So like the front module and then like five other ones and then the players can basically just swap whatever they want based on whatever their needs and based on what they want the ship to do. Yeah. So I think the this again going back to that Lego uh analogy um that system I think it just causes too much uh too much havoc. you could have, you know, might let you make just a single module ship or a thousand module ship and it's not something that we really um want to plan around. So, I would hate to put like a thousand

29. 00:22:44

    thrusters. Yes. I think I think start starting off with with a with a determined uh number of modules is is going to be um uh resultant in the best um working ship that we can deliver. Definitely agree on that one. So yeah, hopefully once we release more information on the catapult, we can actually let you guys know all the different module variants and stuff that we could that you could play with. My final question, um, Skiffy writes, uh, with many citizens opening owning multiple ships, I'm curious if it would be possible to staff spare ships entirely by NPCs. For example, if I'd like to pilot my Carrick to go exploring, but send my research back to have NPCs on the Endeavor start crunching, plus send coordinates I discovered back to my claimer, who could start basic salvage operations, or to a

30. 00:23:31

    lesser extent, could I simply send coordinates to my ship's NPCs who could get them staged for my arrival? A lot of ships in that question. Um, there was a response from Wilborg 1978. Um, I have similar questions of that. If I run as a player in a Carrick with an uh on all NPC crew, um can I hire additional NPCs to escort my Carrick with a Starfare and or Vanguard? Or is it ship size for escorts limited so that only little ships like a Herald, Hornet, and so on can be used for escorts? Is it possible as a solo solo player to play the Carrick with an NPC crew and put an NPC on the Endeavor so I can transfer uh the found stuff from my character or is it imposs impossible for a solo player? These are all great questions and the happy answer is yes. We plan for um the NPCs to completely man a ship that you

31. 00:24:21

    own um or multiple ships. They'll it'll work just like the contract system for uh a human player that um is going to be flying your ship um but they'll simply be NPCs. And so how does that how does that work though with like if I'm in one ship though and then just the NPC captain cuz like how the seats are broken down with everything. Sure. Well, uh when when we get the NPCs to work, um you you'll actually give them contracts and so you're telling them what to do with the ship. So if this if the command is um I'm transferring my cargo to the ship that is owned by me um and I want you to take it back to our hanger or base or whatever um and sell it. Um that is something that is uh planned to happen. And so, um, you don't need to

32. 00:25:09

    babysit all of the, um, the standard activities that a ship that you own can can handle, so long as you have NPCs that can, um, handle all the stations on that ship. Um, and so I think that'll be a lot of fun because risky though. Sure. But you know with that um it lets you um take uh give some of the responsibilities for the stuff that you need to get done but may not want to sit um you know on the ship itself awaiting it uh its uh function to go do. So if it's a if it's a lesser task um and I have a ship to do that why not let why not let me do that? So, it's going to be I think uh I'd love to have a fleet. I'd love to have a fleet of ships, but at the same time, it's like do I want to bring my whole fleet out because if I

33. 00:25:56

    get attacked, I can only do so much. It's like that's a throw risk, right? Right. And that's that's the decision you make. And so, I think that's where the fun comes because you figure out what works best for you and what you want to um allow these NPCs to handle. Um and uh you know, with experience um uh as time goes on, I think people will figure out what works optimally for them. So, um, I would just get like 10 hornets then and just have my one ship then I have like 10 hornet escorts if anything comes in they're not messing with me. All right. Or I might wait for you outside your hanger and as soon as you you put you send your ship and I'm attacking and taking everything you got. So, yeah. So, that'll be fun. Cool. So, last question is actually from Deadweight. Um, a question about the design process itself in regards to heavily modular ships like the Caterpillar Endeavor and whole series. How do you go about sketching out the

34. 00:26:45

    game mechanics that revolve around the modules themselves? Do you all sit around a conference room throwing out around ideas to see what might and might not work? Are there any balance considerations with ships that can effectively change the entire makeup from heavy combat to almost to mostly harmless or from repair and medical to pure hauling? Or do you just let mass and power limitations govern what players can and can't do? We do actually design each module out for purpose. We do sometimes sit around in a conference room and we also do have a lot of design considerations that we put into it and sometimes we have the power limitations govern what the design is based on just whether it's OP, whether it's functional, whether it's so like the main thing is like each ship is completely different. In the case of the Caterpillar, like we looked a lot into

35. 00:27:34

    what it was intended to do. So like you know the original intent was search and rescue and then we started looking at some of the other ones like the other variants which you know we were like the possibility of variants were the marine the merchant marine and then the small scale salvage. So we started looking at, okay, well, what does a search and rescue need, right? So search and rescue, you need like a medical bay. So boom, we got a medical bay check. We need a place to house the crew as well as the medical crew. So bam, now that's like an extra personnel one right there. And then, you know, you need cargo just in case. You also need launch bays so that way you can get people launched out to go save people and stuff, you know, like it's like kind of like this like the dive rescues, right? Sure. I think what you're describing is like the whole top down approach though you first the ship function itself is determined and

36. 00:28:24

    then once we determine the particular type of function then we design the module so that it'll serve that function and what um those needs are for that particular module. And so, um, we keep diving down deeper to try to figure out, um, you know, because for us as designers, we're determining what the player interaction with the ships are. And therefore to uh accomplish those particular tasks that the ship is suited for, what works best as far as uh the components, in this case, the modules uh on that ship. The important thing is also feasibility. Like because we had some I made a couple modules or designed inspect some couple modules and people were like I don't know if that would work or they needed we need to tone that down a little bit just to make sure it wasn't you know crazy over overpowered.

37. 00:29:13

    Yeah. But can you talk about some of the examples of the ones that have been designed out so far? Um so yeah. Yeah. Like we have like the medical bay and we have the cargo bay. We have some of the personnel bays and we have multiple variants um even different of the different modules themselves. So like we have two different cargo modules, right? So what are the differences in those? So like one of the cargo ones we have is where one has like a catwalk. So that way people you lose about like 15 to 20 SCU I think with a catwalk. But then it's basically it's a catwalk. So you can actually go through and walk through the cargo and get through the entire ship cuz if you fill up an entire bay of cargo then you can't walk through it. So if you wanted to get to the other side of the ship, basically you either have to like exit the ship to go back in through a different docking port and something like that. So the player can set up the ship however they want. And

38. 00:30:00

    based on what modules they choose for their ship, they have to deal with the consequences of okay, this is what's this is what this one has the strengths. This is what the weaknesses of this one and this module does this. That's good. Uh so that there's um there are positives and negatives to each type and then the player is able to determine what works best for them. you know, one of the ones we're playing with. So, like, um, everybody's always talking about like the pirate stuff. So, we're talking about like, you know, some more attack, more aggressive type modules to add to it. And also the ones like people are like, "Oh, it's useless." But cargo is kind of, you know, still has like still has hard points on it. So, like each side of the bay has like tractor beam hard points, right? Like size ones. So, if you wanted to, you could put swap those tractor bum beams out for like two size ones, right? Ship. So you can kind of like I wouldn't I know I I keep the

39. 00:30:48

    tractor beans but you never know people want to put like you know guns on the bay cargo bay. Let them do it. Have fun. Good luck. If you can come up you guys come up with other ways to use this stuff. Awesome. Cuz emergent gameplay is something that we're really trying to just let them have the toy and then let them see what they do with it. Cool. So cool. Um I think that's our 10 questions. Yeah, I think that's it. Uh well this was a blast. Um, thank you everybody, especially the subscribers for allowing us to um have this moment of uh of interaction. Uh, not the quickest. It's not instantaneous, but at least we're we're attempting some sort of back and forth with the community. Um but uh this this really allows us to um get feedback uh from from everyone and uh come up with what we um feel is um in

40. 00:31:42

    the community's best interest and what you guys want to see. Um and this helps a lot. So um this has been fun. Yeah, been fun. Keep hitting up the forums. Let us know what you think. Also give us question more questions even if it's not just 10 for whatever department with the writers and stuff like that. like we'd love to read the forums and get you guys um feedback and everything. So, see you guys out there. Hey guys, thanks for watching um Temp for the Chairman. Uh if you guys would like to uh see more episodes, go here. If you guys would like to subscribe to our YouTube channel and always keep up to date with all our video content, go here. And uh if you guys would like to watch episodes of Round the Verse, go here please. And I

41. 00:32:31

    will see you in the verse. This video made possible by the ICC stellar surveyors and subscribers like you.