Star Citizen Live | Q&A Ship Audio Team

Transcript — every row opens the video at that moment

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   Countdown. Liked how that said countdown at the end. [laughter] Uh, hi everybody. Welcome to Star Citizen Live uh Q&A, the audio team. I'm your host Jared Huckabe. And if you've never seen Star Citizen Live before, it's where we take about an hour out of the close to the end of our week uh invite a bunch of CIG developers on the show and ask them questions. Uh on today's format, we asked them questions entirely supplied by you, the Star Citizen player. Uh we we we we put a thread up on Spectrum and you guys submitted your questions and then these guys spent the ne the last 36 hours pouring through the questions and asking and asking themselves what you were trying to ask us and figuring it out and we got that here. Uh we have a bunch of first- timers on the show today, so

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   we're going to take a few minutes and introduce uh them to everybody before we get into the the nitty-gritty. Uh, starting with our esteemed audio director, Simon. Tell everybody who you are. >> Hello everyone. >> I'm Simon. I'm the audio director. I'm responsible for all the audio in Star Citizen and uh all the department and I have a few members with me today. If I pass on to our next member. >> Yeah. Hi, I'm Tristan. Uh, I'm a sound designer, Star Citizen. uh started in QA seven years ago, work my way up and yeah, here I am sound designer. >> Quite a few people starting QA though. It's like that that is the that is if there this were baseball that would that's like the minor leagues for

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   everything. It's like there are people we we've had lead producers. We've had we've had uh seuite executives that all started in in in QA at some point. So >> a good place to start. >> Yeah. >> You'll learn you'll learn how things actually >> you do. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Uh Josh. >> Yeah, my name's Josh. I'm a sound designer for Star Citizen. Uh specifically for vehicles in Star Citizen. Um I didn't start in QA, so [laughter] >> So you're not as good as Tristan as? >> No, no, no. If I need any uh tips, Tristan is the one to go to. >> Okay. And Jan? >> Yes. My name is John. Uh I'm also one of the vehicle audio designers. Uh, I'm one of the five with the other two guys here. Um, yeah, I joined about six months ago, so I'm fairly new here. And

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   yeah, Star Citizen vehicles. >> Okay. And who is Melana? [snorts] >> Uh, Milanessa is my cat. And he's like five years old now. >> Okay. Is he one cat or a collection of cats? >> Just one cat with many faces. [laughter] And >> you have you have your own hoodie? >> Yeah, my wife made it for me. Yeah. >> Shout out to Melana. [laughter] All right. So, we have, like I said at the beginning of the show, which wasn't that long ago, uh that the team here went poured through your questions and pulled out roughly the 30 uh that they can address. Today, we are going to jump right into it because we have a lot to talk about. Um our focus on today's show, uh audio is a wide and all-encompassing a discipline that touches every single aspect of the game. And while we may

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   veer from this time to time, uh most of our focus on today's show will be ships and ship audio since that's where a lot of the most exciting new uh uh deliveries and and and new uh uh procedures are going now. So, we'll start uh with a rather simple one um from really tiny Rick. Don't usually read the names out. I said we weren't going to read the names out, but sorry, Really Tiny Rick. When making a new ship, how do you identify what that ship should sound like? >> Nice top level kind of interest. It's a simple question, but it's got a lot of complicated answers to it. So, it depends on the manufacturer, the size of the vehicle, the form, the shape, the materials have been it's been built with, and also the thrusters. Um, and

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   then what how fast it's going to go, what's its requirement within the game, what it's going to do. Um, I mean that's an over overview and we we the most important thing is any sounds we give it, we want to actually feel like it's actually coming from that, you know, the incredible design of the ship. So that that's the kind of the headline and if we dig into that further. >> Yeah, just I'll I can add to that. Um, generally the process is will generally have a teamwide uh kickoff which will involve other departments. Usually, we'll get a little summary, like maybe a few sentences on what the ship's all about, [snorts] and we'll usually take that, do a little more digging, have a look at the ship, what manufacturer is it, is it Drake? Is it a little bit more rundown? Is it Origin? Super high tech?

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   Um, then we'll gather our own references from popular media, discuss it amongst ourselves, get kickoff from Simon, and then that usually gives us a pretty good start and where we want to go with it. >> Yeah. Simon comes in and makes some silly noises. >> Yeah, [laughter] >> some direction. >> I mean, we'll look at all we'll look at all contemporary vehicles, real ones and kind of fantasy ones and then we'll all get together. I will generally make a lot of noises with my mouth or I'll get very excited about maybe a dragster I might seen online or we might draw from any number of sound ideas that we've heard or experienced that we might want to bring to the ship. um given that we want to give you know recently we've been giving each ship an a unique identity so it's it's got its own signature if you like and you can

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   identify it. So um rather than just digging from a pool of sands and just throwing those in each ship needs its own kind of considerations. I mean the design of them is beautiful and we want to reflect all of the time gone into the design with the the sound design and we could draw our sources from any number of things. The ideal scenario is that we create the sounds ourselves. Now we'll dig into this further obviously but realistically we don't have jet engines right >> at our kind of you know we don't have a jet engine parked outside that we can go and record. So, we've got to come up with interesting possibilities. Um, and out of that, we may record very unusual objects in different ways in order to

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   get them into the game, into the into the vehicle. >> I want to follow up on something you you you touched on there. You you said lately or recently, you want to give each ship a unique signature. >> Yeah. in the past and I don't want to I don't want to throw the work of of you know of of the of the previous audio team you know under the bus or anything but in the past there were there were a few there there was a more kind of systemic kind of generic approach to this to this stuff and now it seems like you guys are really pushing to what doing what you just said to give each ship kind of a signature. Yes. >> What prompted that >> that kind of philosophical change? Well, initially when I came, I thought, okay, this is a a marketable object. You know, when I buy a vehicle, a car or

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    something, I really I wanted to be I want to feel the weight of it. I want to feel the beauty of I want to hear it. I want to listen to stuff. And the most important thing for me, it's a spaceship game in intrinsically initially and then the most important thing for me was to increase the size of the department. So, we've got six people. Keep keep talking. So that we've got six people actually to create the sounds and uh that means we can give it much more bespoke sounds than that were they than they had uh previously before I came and you know the the guys are very aware of the intent that I want to kind of project for the vehicles and I'm hogging too much of the time. >> Don't pass [laughter] to me. I can kind of like go back on the audio direction

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    kickoff that we do like in the early early stages during the pre-production because that's something I feel like uh often times is not talked about enough or is not given enough credit because Simon comes in these meetings and he usually has these like really wild ideas and he comes out with these like really specific keywords for us to go on with. He makes some like actual verbal sound effects and these are like super valuable. is actually kind of fun to do. Like we have a good time doing it, but also his ideas that he brings like from his years of experience obviously they they give us a lot of like starting points to like build our ideas from and every ship that he sees on screen like we show him uh this is the new ship we need to work on and he comes up with like bunch of really different ideas from all the past ships and that's like

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    a very good inspiration point to start from. Uh, as a follow-up to this, exit wounds asks, we're doing names on this one. I've just decided, I told them we're not doing names. We never do names. I'm doing names. Uh, we've seen a lot of the ships get more distinct startup sounds and thrust sounds like the Percy's, which sounds great. Will these roll out to the older ships? Yes, they will. Uh, because now how how many vehicles do you think we've kind of increased the sort of value of the look? >> About 10. So basically, you know, we've got 10 we've started with and there are hundreds to do. Yes, of course we're going to be doing that. How we fit them into the schedule. I can't promise when that's going to be happening. Um, but that's the intent because the better the recent ships got get, the more the divide is from the previous ships. Then

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    we want to update everything. I know there's so much more value we need to give the whole experience. You know, it has I want it to be a great sound experience. Always a meaningful experience when you fly. You know, you want to I'm can't wait to get in my vehicle to fly it because it's going to give me vibration. It's going to give me move. I'm going to feel like I'm moving. >> Um >> the startup sound is particularly important as well because it's the startup sounds particular important as well because it's your first kind of introduction to how the vehicle sounds and thus how it feels. And it was always quite an enjoying thing to watch YouTube videos where they get into the ship and then they start it up and then the reactions that they they have to it and it's just like you know what kind of ship you're flying when you turn those engines on and that was always kind of the approach with it.

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    >> It it's we we've had a couple offline conversations about this. It's there's this there's this thing I was gonna I was going to ask well let me let me ask the question before I go to what I'm saying how important is audio in >> it's okay there's there's a classic answer it's 50% of a game or the film but actually it's a little bit more but I mean if I can just give a very brief so your field of vision is I don't know about it's about 120 degrees what you can see and then you've got you know 50% % and 70% you can actually visually see but we've actually got to provide 360 degrees of the sound. So actually the stuff you can't see we need to provide as well. And also an experience is much more fulfilling

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    when you've got I'm going to use the word immersive and people will laugh at me. When you've got an enveloping spatial audio experience, an immersive experience that we can offer you sonically where you can feel not only what you see in front of you within the field of view, but you actually get the suggestion of stuff is going on behind you like the the rockets kicking you and pushing you through the universe, the turn and the vibrations and the whole experience. not only in spaceships, you know, and to the greatest extent throughout the whole universe that we're going to occupy in every sonic experience and every visual experience we travel through, we're there to support that. >> Um that uh that's a that's a good answer. What I what one of the what I was referencing online is you've heard me say several times that you know there's I have this dream of this show.

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    We haven't gotten to do it yet. This isn't going to be the show, but I want to do this long form kind of thing. I I have this firm belief that, you know, we got all of these amazing 3D artists, all these amaz the the 2D artists, the 3D artists, the the VFX artists, all of this stuff, and they they they they they create a wonderful canvas, but nothing comes to life until you hear it. It it it it's it's it's for me the audio is that moment where a thing becomes goes from being a work of art to a living breathing thing whether that's a spaceship or a character or a creature or whatnot. And so when you say you you say it's 50/50 it's it's like it's it's certainly there but yes I I think it >> it's just it's just it's just it's just

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    art. Not that art is not great. >> Yeah. I mean it's the language we're providing for the design. I mean the design theoretically things can exist without sound because the design gives you you know real perspective and dimension but we we can add the weight and value to the you know to the experience. >> I always kind of thought as well the visuals kind of build the world but the sound puts you in it. >> Yep. >> It's kind of how I experienced it. >> So to follow up on that we've got all this work to create these signature sounds and whatever. We discussed how important the sound is, what not, but as Ephemeral Soul asks, uh, why do the sounds of other ships you hear while inside your own ship all seem to sound the same across the board? You do all this work and then when you're trying to listen to the other outside world while

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    in your ship, it all seems to be kind of generic. What's happening there? >> That that's placeholder, right? I think that's um that stemmed from our old ship system breaking and it created a game-breaking bug. So we took that opportunity to move on to the new ship system. Um and uh basically we had to just keep put placeholder on for for all the other ships. Uh otherwise I it's better to have something than nothing on like soundwise. So um that is something we are going to address like we we will >> yeah we'll get to that. >> So it was kind of a um it it was a temporary fix to a gamebreaking issue and instead of reverting back to what we

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    had before we took the opportunity to work on a new system that brings back the older flyby or something like the older flybys which people have been asking for for so long. hopefully an improved version of that and that is something that we are actively working on at the moment. >> Oh, we've already done some >> already and they're going in. So, they are >> it's close. >> They're going in. I mean, every not failing or or disappointment for the community of the audio that they identify. We don't ignore it. We're going to address it. But that, you know, the targeted way we're going to change it has to be mannered and has to go has to be in line with the studio and actually in line with the actual systems that we have to kind of implement them. We can't just drop tools and yes, we of course want to do that, but it's not it's not a case of just finding um a sound effect. Oh, that that should do

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    it. It has to be considered. And there's a lot to consider because not only are we we're going to elevate this the actual spatial um audio as we go, you know, in the future towards VR and actually things that we're actually going to physically be able to touch and things like we've got to we've got to build for the future rather than just band-aid everything and say, "Well, that'd be fine." Um we do get round to it and we we are getting round to it and everything is being addressed and approached. Yeah, >> but it can't be just done. Um, I know this is probably going to be almost feel like a stock answer. It can't be done now, but you know, things like we want to do that. We do want to do that and we are doing stuff. We are doing stuff now that isn't available yet is not necessarily going to be available for any of the future releases, but the

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    stuff going on in the background because, you know, we've got no time to lose. I've got no time to lose and we're growing the department. We have grown the department >> uh in order to change the audio. Well, I I think everybody I think everybody can already see the impact >> that that that that you've had on the you know since you've been here. Um so yeah, just you know can't always work on everything. Yeah. At all the same time stuff like that. >> I would say this topic probably is probably like the biggest open wound wound for us because it's something that pops up a lot and we we also experiences when we when we test our sounds and etc. So we work really hard on the ship like the individual ship sounds that the players will experience when they play it. But that aspect is a is something is a is a really big part of it. So like

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    like Simon said it won't be like a bandady type of solution like we we want to make sure we're doing a really thorough system that will that will exp that will elevate the players >> Do all this work. They wanna they want to hear an Idris or Percy is passing by from like really far away and like and we want them to identify oh okay that I know which ship is that just just by hearing it like this is >> this is basically what we want to achieve >> and when it passes over you you want to feel it right >> you want to feel it yeah of course >> so so we're talking about this right now and you know there's always a question about the realistic audio system so we're talking about being able to hear sounds from one ship to the next ship and whatever but then there's inevitably somebody's is in chat's doing it. I didn't see it, but I know it's there. Somebody chat's like, "You're not

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    supposed to hear anything in space." >> Wait, is that an okay word to say? >> What? That we can't hear anything in space? >> No, that the the the the British word I used. >> What did you use? What was the word you used? Was that a bad word? >> Did you swear? >> I've been trying so hard not to swear. Did you slip a swear word? British word that's not a swear to me, but only because I don't actually know what it means. I I I I associated it with a with with with with a dummy. [laughter] >> I don't know. >> So, yeah. Real So, the real audio and the real kind of the physics of audio in space, the physics with atmosphere atmosphere with atmosphere. Well, um kind of rule of call sometimes. I mean, if we've got some if we've got something we want to make a

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    sound, then I wanted to make a sound. Now, we can't just provide a roll up. We can't just have the the bass frequencies or the low pass just kicking in. We've got each, [snorts] you know, we've got to feel vibration through our our space space uh suit and then through our helmet. We've got to consider how vibration works and how we achieve the real audio because um yes, you can't hear anything in space, but as soon as you start touching stuff, you'll get resonance through this through your suit and then through your helmet. And that's not just a case of creating a sound and then just rolling off the treble or the high frequencies. We've got to it's a bit more complicated than that. Now, I'm sure some people want real audio and some people don't want real audio. I'm not sure what the right answer is for that, but we're giving an

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    Yeah. Go on. >> Sorry. I was just going to say I think we really want to build a great cinematic experience first because we're going to have to have cinematic sounds anyway in atmosphere. So, if we can build on that foundation, then we can move on and do the realistic stuff at a later date once we've got the cinematic stuff in in order. Basically, build from that. I think there's areas of the game that we'll we'll approach that will obviously give the feeling of more realism like the difference between atmospheric flight and space flight and that kind of justosition between the two makes you it's like an artistic interpretation of no sound in sense >> but as Tristan said it's we've got a lot of work to do on regular mode [laughter] first. >> Yeah, it it's always it's always hard. Star Citizen always it's a struggle that

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    doesn't just affect audio. It's everything. This bring it to the point of realism, then bring it back to the point of fun is is something that we that we we've had to, you know, we we've had for a long time. This is actually bring it to the point of fun and cool and then, you know, let's let's look at realism after that. And I think I think there are certain I think there have to be certain places where that's okay. You know, it's it's a video game. It's meant to be fun. It's meant to be immersive. Like you said, cinematic. I mean I mean anybody spent five minutes with Chris knows you know how important anything being cinematic is to the guy and stuff. So, it's the it's Yeah, you're never going to be there's always going to be the one person. I saw it. I called for it and there was there was there were se several people in chat. How did you start in space?

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    >> This is what in space. No sausages in space. [laughter] Sam, sorry. >> Yeah. I mean, it's got to be rule of call. Um, we're not going to please everyone all the time and, you know, but we don't want the game to be like a a physics lecture. Um, we we wanted it's fun. >> I think some people do though. I think some people obviously want the game to be a physics lecture and it's just >> well it's certainly a thing. >> Well, maybe in the future we can provide for that. >> I don't want to I don't want to >> it's not my play it's not my place to judge. We discuss we've discussed it a lot about the no sound in space stuff and and the realistic mode. >> But ultimately we design the sound in full and you know we may shel that you know that that sonic experience until we know how we're going to address that properly.

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    >> So now a question that does take it closer to realism. What about damage effects? cuz cuz right now the next question from Hybrid V, you know, talks about, hey, you know, my my my fully damaged ship sounds [snorts] just the same as my undamaged ship right now. So, what do we do about that? Because that seems like a you can have your rule of cool, but >> like I said, it's that balance. You you want your ship to sound differently when it's when it's really messed up. >> So, what are we doing there? >> This is something that has been discussed. I was talking to one of our programmers about it cuz I've noticed that VFX have sort of variations on the thrusters based on damage and was like can we is there a way we can tie into this and have audio kind of um reinforce that as well and I think we discussed at

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    the time that it may be something that would work with the engineering that was recently added into it. Um, it's not something we've fully scoped out yet, but it's definitely something we want to do. Um, it's just, uh, where we can fit in and we need to discuss how we tackle it as well. >> Yeah, we need to support that first from code. But yeah, I mean, we were even talking about it today. >> Yeah, >> like it's it's definitely something we need to address. >> Um, brings a lot more immersion >> for sure. >> So, what about atmospheric audio? So, so you it's it's do are ships. So, one would assume that a ship might sound differently in atmo than it would in space. Even if we accept that there's going to be rule of cool sound in space, should the ship still sound different in

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    atmo from space? >> Well, yeah, that's again, I mean, it's time back into the to the uh realistic mode stuff. Um, we're going to have to at some point look at atmospheric flight versus space flight. So I mean that's what I was saying before we need to build on the cinematic experience first. So once we've got that cinematic experience cinematic experience that is the atmosphere atmospheric flight and then we will have to look then look into changing things up for in space. >> And and also the the flyby stuff we did actually Josh and I discussed it when we were designing the assets for it. Um, we were looking at uh flybys in space versus atmosphere because there's going to be uh no obviously no wind or pressure in space. So we have to it would sound really weird if we put our

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    atmospheric flybys in space cuz you just hear all this wind coming. It just doesn't make sense. So I mean we we're already addressing it and we will have to address it again future. >> And tying into that as well, you know, wear and tear of engines and how things break. >> Yeah. You want to be able to hear the engines. >> Yeah. you we need over time we'll want the engine to change um because it's not for it to make the same sound and it hasn't had a service that's going to be a little bit dull. Uh so we we've got to think about that as well. You know we're considering that working out how to do that. So you know every it's it's organic and real in that sense as well. The actual changing sound from new to older. >> One thing I [clears throat] can add is uh this is the first time I'm working on a live game. So it's like a a different experience for me. Like I'm learning a

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    lot of stuff and a lot of the [laughter] >> what? >> Yeah, you do learn a few things. You do you you do learn a few things working on a live service game as opposed to one. >> It's a buzz. [laughter] >> it's a buzz. That's a word for it. >> Yeah. Like very often it's it's a balancing act between uh making sure everything is working. We're getting the new content in and a lot of these questions are like really fantastic ideas that we are always talking about internally and we want to make sure they're implemented in the game in the correct way that uh so that we don't have to like like the way we have these old ships that don't have the uh current modern version that we are doing. So people find them underwhelming. So if we

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    do a a way to implement these new ideas into our new ships, we we have to do it in a way that we don't have to do multiple passes for the older ships. We can come up with like uh more system systematic solutions and make sure everything is applying globally. >> The last question was about atmospheric flight. So, I have to It actually isn't in the list and I don't know if you guys avoided it or what not, but I know it's out there. Yeah, >> I know every single time I've done a show on audio, this question has come up without fail. So, I haven't seen it yet, but I'm going to just do it now. >> Sonic booms. >> We much can tell. >> It's probably a question for Graham. I have seen

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    >> I have seen some images of uh art that include Sonic Booms and I don't know how much we can tell. I have seen it. >> So, it could be there. We want it to be there. >> Well, you've said that we're going to be Sonic [laughter] Booms. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah. >> There are there will be a noise that goes with them. >> Yeah. I I mean I was going to feed in that you know our you know where we're working is we're constantly as well as doing the work and delivering and releasing stuff. It's constantly and we're doing R&D all the time. There's never a day when we don't consider what we're going to be recording in terms of props and things that we use to recreate sounds and also systems that we want to bring in. I mean we're always animated and motivated in that sense. It's not like well here's another

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    spaceship let's just do this. We want it every every day we talk about this, not just in ships across the department. Everyone's everyone's actively thinking how to make the sound experience better. >> I think as a game >> very alive, as a game that's sort of grounded in realism, I know it's sci-fi and space and set in the future, but it's grounded in realism in many aspects. I think it makes sense that at some point we will have Sonic Booms. I just don't see a way around it. >> Seems and and as I say, I've seen some [laughter] VFX for it. I don't know when it'll come, but I've seen it. Graham talked about it at Citizen Con like two or three years ago and and whatnot. It's it's just uh some some folks in chat are asking why this sounds like we're we're thinking about some of these things for the very first time and whatnot. And it's it's it's it's less that we're thinking about these things for the very

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    first time. It's more that like the project you you know the the way that we do audio for the project has evolved has evolved. part of part of why you know when we had you on you know you know once once you hit six months and you you you try not to put anybody on video the first six months it's a lot to it's a lot to take in but you you were like on six months and three days before we had you on your first your your first show cuz I wanted to get you in here you know part of what part of what you've had to do since you joined is kind of re-evaluate everything related to how we make audio and I mean the benefit of me coming in fresh means I've made an a value judgment and assessment independently of any kind of development issues or the scope of development. Um Chris, you know, probably knows much

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    more about cinema than I do and I, you know, I've worked on hundreds of films or hundreds of, you know, releasable materials and, you know, it's going to be a cinematic game that and that's what I want. You know, I'm going to raise the bar and we are raising the bar. It's just it's just, you know, that's the way we're going to do it. Now that doesn't mean any of these considerations haven't been talked about before. It's not we are not just suddenly coming to the idea >> doesn't mean we threw everything away. >> By the way, we better do some sound and everybody and we don't unfair of me to suggest that prior to me coming the these considerations weren't active. They were it's just there has to be scope for the release of them. >> Um and you know everybody all the different departments have to work together organically. Yeah. >> Um, >> I think anybody that's followed the project for any tremendous period of time, uh, knows that, you know, every

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    year we sort of, you know, take a step back, ree, we we evaluate, we re-evaluate, and then we, you know, we see what we need to change and what we need to adjust and what. And I think there's often this misconception that any game studio, I'm going to I'm going to speak for the whole industry here, is a monolith that you you you just set out you start a project with a plan and you just go with that plan the entire time through your development without ever rethinking, without ever re-evaluating, without ever having a new technology coming online. That means you can do something in a different way than you thought. But is making a game, especially over the course of a decade more, is a continuous series of re-evaluations and reinventions of how you do things and why you do things and where you do

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    things and when you do things and stuff. So for I understand why some people like, you know, why does it sound like, you know, you're thinking about this the first time? It's not. It's just this is the the newest and the latest thinking with the newest and the latest uh plan and procedure. >> Yeah. Nothing nothing we do is there to upset anybody and uh I read the comments constantly. I can't address all how many hundreds came in. Um we you know we do listen and we don't ignore those things. I'm aware of >> many of the topics which is not worth talking about that now because you know we we we can't promise anything on that just yet. >> Uh Chawahi says I think about doing stuff all the time means nothing if you don't execute. Uh and yeah, thank you for thank you for recognizing the

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    amazing work they've been doing on the ship audio for the last year. Uh as they continue to execute the f their first thing and then they'll execute the next thing the next thing. Yeah, thank you for recognizing that Chawawaii. And I would also say like in a in a project that's been in in in in progress for this long, there's a lot of value in uh having people that's been on the project for a really long time because they just know the project inside out. >> They know where the bodies are buried. >> Sorry. >> I haven't discovered yet. Uh but there's also a a big value in new uh bringing new people in like me, Josh, uh Nathan Gibson, Ilas Malov, our other vehicle audio uh designers >> and Jack is Jack as well.

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    >> Yeah. And when when we came in, we obviously come in with fresh ideas. There's all there's already systems that were created in the past by previous great sound designers. Some of my actually some of them were my friends. So there's systems that pre-existed, but over time, like you said, things evolve, change, plans get scrapped, something >> new ideas, >> sorry, >> new ideas. >> Yeah, totally. So new things come in and we we come in, we have our own ideas. We want to make sure things are working, but we also want to improve things >> and like with these passbys and vibration systems, we have a lot of ideas, but it's Yeah, it's always a balancing act. Yeah, I think with the scope of the game as well, it can be quite easy to kind of chase after all these different ideas that kind of pop up and that people want. But we we're

42. 00:33:04

    trying to, as you said, tackle things one at a time, like we've improved the thrust of the system. We've choose vibration >> specifically so we can start delivering after. >> Yeah. Well, we we've started talking about we've started boosting up the vibration system over the last couple of ships and you know, we're increasing that. We're recording new assets for that, new sounds that we can put into the vibration system because, you know, a very expensive ship is going to rattle and vibrate uh completely differently to something that is, you know, stuck together with rivets. And, you know, we we you know, we need we're doing that. That's being done. Didn't explosion sounds come back recently? >> They did. >> It was It was just like the last patch, wasn't it? >> Yeah. So, explosions were broken for a

43. 00:33:51

    while. >> And and and what was that? Was that just a bug fix or that that needs some kind of rework? What happened there? >> That was something that I looked into just before Christmas. Um cuz it was affecting V effects as well and it ended up getting fixed upstream. I think it was to do with the change in how we handle the death of the ship. [laughter] Um, at a certain point it was just like this is beyond me, but then they did something and fixed it. >> Uh, we got a couple questions here that seem a little off color. We're going to do it since you picked them, put them in there, having trouble seeing. Uh, which audio team member makes the most verbal sound effect impressions while they work?

44. 00:34:38

    >> He's sitting right with us. [laughter] >> I do. >> Definitely. >> It's not Phil. >> Phil does. He does. He's the second worst for sure. >> Phil's the second worst. >> Wow. You came in and unseated Phil right away. [laughter] >> Sorry. Why is that? >> It's It's a shorthand for providing um a sonic reference point. So, I'm I'm Don't get me to make the sound. >> Oh, [laughter] please. >> A leaf blower. >> A leaf blower. Anything. I might any number of noises. I might do some, you know, I might come back to some of the stuff I've done on films, you know, Predators, Aliens, and that kind of stuff and and use the the voice is a great sound tool, you know, and it no doubt it's in some of the ships. Perhaps >> it [clears throat] is. And you know, it's it's a great it's a great indicator

45. 00:35:27

    of showing the power and and showing kind of what you want from a sound as well as visual um reference points as well, >> right? >> Um like you can get a lot out of um your mouth and it's, you know, to give that kind of you know that kind of experience, that sonic experience. Shut up. Shut up. >> Simon, >> I was laughing at Jared. >> Hello. Jared started that. >> Hello, I'm Simon. So, you can get a lot out of your mouth. >> [laughter] >> I haven't wobbled. Um, haven't sworn. >> Speaking of leaf blowers, Josh, no. Uh, >> what's the Okay, I'm just going to read this one. What's the last sound effect someone in the team created that constituted calling everybody over and saying, "Hey, listen to this." Can Can you guess?

46. 00:36:13

    >> It was the leaf. >> Yeah, it was a recording of a leaf blower um that I turned into I think I described as disgusting. uh just through pitch shifting it, adding layers of distortion, saturation, and I was like, "This sounds like a really gnarly engine and made everyone individually come and listen to it and then didn't end up using it on the ship." >> I was going to say I [laughter] was going to say, are you are you are you ready to confirm that there's a ship out there that sounds like a leaf blower just pitch shifted? >> You didn't use it? >> No. Did use Simon's voice in a ship, though? >> Use Simon's voice in a ship. >> Yeah. Simon came in one day and said, "I'm going to make you some spaceship sounds with my mouth." [laughter] >> As one does. I had a spare minute. >> Yeah. So, he came in two minutes. I didn't have high expectations, but I was

47. 00:37:02

    pleasantly surprised and it made it into the salvation, actually. >> But I mean I mean, thank you. [laughter] But we've I mean, talk about the stuff we did with the Foley recordings, you know, to create the kind of the alien ship and all of the um organic sounds that we created. >> Stinger. >> Yeah. from the stinger. >> The bowl of stuff. >> The bowl of goop. And >> you had to make a sound for a bowl of goop. >> Well, we went to like toy stores and bought like, you know, put putty and and and shaving foam and vegetables and all sorts and uh threw threw into a bowl, mashed it up >> and then it work >> and then Sorry. >> And then what did you do for work? >> We actually made working more unpleasant because the room did have a >> Yeah. unpleasant odor afterwards. >> No. Uh, we used a lot of it on the

48. 00:37:50

    Stinger though, >> but we wanted it to sound organic. We wanted to actually sound like it had some kind of skeletal exoskeleton. And we wanted rather than just using metal sounds or from other recording sources, we just wanted to give it this kind of visceral feeling of like an animal. So, you know, that comes across. And I mean, there are other things, you know, some of the comments we got were for the wolf. Was there the wolf? Someone commenting about the the seat sound. >> The chair. >> Yeah. Sounds like what was that? >> How was that done, Josh? >> We did a we did a bespoke foley pass on the Wolf cuz um you wanted to make it feel like a luxurious experience and every time you're just like it needs to sound like fine leather when you sit down. And we didn't end up using fine leather for the recording, but we did use my rubber green backpack which just

49. 00:38:38

    had the right texture to it. >> Yeah. and but it it got a comment. So, you know, very simple sound source like Josh's bag um became part of the folio experience of sitting in the chair. So, you know, the the smallest of insignificant sounds can can give you a fantastic experience. And it's it's not just necessarily the moving parts, the guns, the thrusters, you know, if something like that raises the kind of enjoyment of the game, you know, we're up for doing that and you because we want to. And it's we're elevating the the richness of the uh of the sonic >> I was surprised people commented about it actually. It is quite a subtle element to it, but it does add to the to the feeling of the ship. It does. >> Especially when it's your introduction to a ship when you sit down. >> Yeah. So, when there's a bug for a ship

50. 00:39:28

    sound like the uh like the infinite quantum spooling stuff that's going on right now, is that a designer who fixes that or is that someone on that's probably someone on code, right? >> Yeah, that that would be an audio programming issue. The spooling bug is something that's being looked into and it is is folded onto our audio programmers but unfortunately the audio programmers are like gold dust and they have a mountainous backlog >> to get through. Um we have recently fixed the bug with salvaging which um >> you have to be more specific than that. >> So there is a book [laughter] most of salvaging didn't work. it does now and will be in a subsequent release. But there was also a bug with um the uh

51. 00:40:18

    fracturing loop just playing endlessly. Um and that was due to an issue with the code and how the stop event is triggered, >> Without going into too much detail, but essentially it wasn't stopping, which is always the risk with loops because if the stop trigger doesn't work, it's going to stay there >> forever. There there there's a fair amount of questions in the chat about audio bugs, this audio bug and what and I it's design, you know, bugs are for programmers and engineers. You guys are designers and stuff like that. So, it's it's not really your area. I'm happy you were able to speak to it to some extent, but I there's a question I get that doesn't usually get asked anywhere else, but I I always How frustrating is it to you? You you you do this work. You create this

52. 00:41:06

    amazing soundsscape for something and then a bug ruins it. A bug makes this gorgeous sound that would be gorgeous if you could only had to hear it for three or four seconds and makes it continuously repeat over and over again to the point now that people begin to hate this sound that you spent so much time, you know, you carefully designing. How frustrating is that for for for you? And >> it's hugely frustrating because we put a lot of care into what we want to provide and that we're getting shout outs for bugs because it ruins the experience for the player and that's like puncturing a balloon. It it's it's it's very disheartening, but we need to find a way of fixing it and and getting back on course. And there are a lot of bugs and

53. 00:41:56

    we're fixing them as quickly as we can. And but I mean you the dis disappointment [clears throat] is um I don't know I mean how can you express the disappointment when you build something and then it's it slips out from working and not working. It's not deliberate. >> I think there's a lot of old bugs that um once we introduce our new systems like um the new flight system that we got a couple of months ago that eliminates a lot of those issues. Not all of them but it eliminates them. So, we just need to, I guess, focus on improving our our systems there. So, to future proof, I mean, there's always going to be bugs, though. I mean, like, I worked in QA. I know. [laughter] >> Say, how Yeah. How many did you come through a day? How many did you fix? I

54. 00:42:43

    mean, there's a phenomenal amount going through QA and there's a phenomenal amount they get fixed. Mhm. >> But you know, obviously the ones that fall through the net or are repeat offenders, the players, you know, we've got plenty of questions about, you know, any number of things which are things which are ruining the the game flow. Of course, we're going to fix those things. It's just when I can't promise when and it would be false of me to give a date or to say something, yeah, we're looking because pretty hollow word saying we're looking at it. But I mean, I'm sure that's been said a lot, but we of course of course we're looking at it because it's it's it's not a complete game until those things are flowing better. >> Yeah, it's a >> won't turn this into a philosophical meditation on the difficulty of game development. >> But it's it's it's just a continual game of whack-a-ole. It's it's because

55. 00:43:32

    because you you you know the the mistake that often gets made and this has nothing to do with audio. This has to do with all game bugs is you think one bug has one cause and it doesn't. One bug can one bug can have seven causes and you fix one, you fix two, you fix three and then you find out the fourth fix actually caused a ninth cause of it that didn't exist prior. And so like this it's just this it's this continual chase. It it starts to you start to feel a little like wy coyote, you know, chasing the road runner after a while. You never stop. >> Game de is a it's it's a giant organism where we we're not uh working in a vacuum or independent of any of the other departments. It's like a lot lot of termites going around doing their business and in all we all have to work together

56. 00:44:19

    >> and you never stop. You never >> and we're alive. >> You never stop. You never give up. You you you do one then the other and the other. You put things in priority order like you're saying, you say, "We got to do this first. We got to do this first. We got to do this first." You you get to things in their time. And it's it's frustrating. It's again, I don't know why I'm suddenly turning this into a meditation on on on game game development as a whole. But, you know, I've often said that, you know, every frustration that >> players feel about any game is usually felt by those developers, you know, three to six weeks earlier. Yeah. >> Uh, and it's like this, it's it's we wish we could do everything all at once and we just can't. So, it's just this we stay vigilant. We bring on we bring in new people when necessary. We we

57. 00:45:06

    re-evaluate process. We we continuously try to improve so we can do more and more every year and you just >> Yeah. just keep working at it. I mean, for vehicles, you know, we're bringing out a lot of vehicles all the time, and the most important thing is I want to make sure the vehicles come out better and better each time, and I'm always looking for space in the schedules to change the the legacy stuff. >> You know, there's plenty of vehicles that need to come up to up to scratch as soon as possible. I want, you know, I I I want the vehicles department to be the one that, you know, gets the most attention first. And I want it to be almost like it's a perfect game being hosted by Star Citizen. That, you know, cuz that's that's that's what we're about about releasing vehicles that work

58. 00:45:55

    that don't need to go back to the garage to be fixed. I want them to go out well and perfect. And then all of these systemic and legacy problems will be fixed the more we escalate the successes. >> Um, we got about 15 minutes left. Let's >> What's more fun for you? This is from >> Kilawurst. Kver [snorts] Kverst Kverst. >> What's more fun for you? Creating crappy sounds for Drake. Love the Clipper door. It is really nice by the way. Um, or clean sounds. clean, nice sounds like for Origin or Crusader. >> Drake, I think we all agree it's it's really fun to make uh the kind of crappy sounds. I don't say crappy, but like I don't know. It's just more It's a lot It's a lot more fun making creaky doors

59. 00:46:42

    and things. Also, origin stuff like that, the high-end stuff's actually really quite difficult to design for. It's like a lot of soft sounds. And when you're using a lot of soft sounds, you can't really convey weight properly for like components. So, you might have a big door. um that you just can't really convey properly just because it needs to be high-tech. >> We've not actually done an origin. >> I was going to say, Josh, how long have you been here? >> Um 8 months. >> Eight months. Okay. So So So you guys have you guys have never worked on an origin ship? We haven't had an origin ship since what 2021. >> Long time. >> Uh what not? That was that the 400 or the 400i? Was 2021. Uh we do have a new origin ship this year though. So you you guys will get to you have a new new origin ship in the next three months. So um I'll just say some stuff. [laughter]

60. 00:47:31

    So So you you you guys will get your first you guys will get your first crack at Origin and and getting to and getting to you you know revitalize that. I'm I'm excited. >> I think you guys agree though, right? I mean I know Josh does like he likes Drake and the craft. >> I do like Yeah. Drake and then also the Drake plus shiv even. >> Yeah, the Golf >> crappier golf. >> Grays. >> Grays. Grays. >> Yeah, it's I'm I usually tell people, you know, if you're a sci-fi fan, you usually fall into one or two categories. You It's pick your Philip K. Dick. You're either a Minority Report or you're a Bladeunner, you kind of thing. Do Do you like the pristine, gorgeous, perfect future? Do you like the used? And I'm I'm a Bladerunner guy. I like I like Drake a lot. I like drink, >> but but I mean

61. 00:48:18

    >> a really nice origin ship would be would be appreciated. and we're gonna get one in a couple months. >> How do you know? Uh, what's the weirdest? This is from Mixpaz. >> What is the weirdest thing you use to make a vehicle sound? [snorts] I think it's the bowl of stuff again. puty and spaghetti. Yeah, we we went shopping like to an actual supermarket and bunch of toy stores and we got we gathered a whole bunch of just weird things that make weird sounds basically and then we slowly started by recording them individually and then within I

62. 00:49:07

    don't know half an hour it turned into like everything coming together in this like goo of soup of I don't know beans and lettuce and celery and bunch of toys just everything all mashed together and then we were just making the weirdest possible sounds. Uh, and they made most of them made it into the Stinger's ambience actually. So, if you if you play with the Stinger and you can hear a different ambience when the ship's system power is off. So, it's it's going to feel like a little bit the ship is not doing too much, but when you come when you turn on the system power, it'll kind of like come alive and this you'll feel this organism coming to life and bunch of the sounds that we made that day is actually in there.

63. 00:49:55

    >> I also made there's a ship I'm working on at the moment where the sort of thruster we call it bl. I don't know if that's an actual >> I'm sorry, what was the word? Bl like the sound of this blah like blah >> blah. >> I haven't heard of it. >> I think it's just an internal state. >> Is that internal thing? >> I'm pretty sure it's just the sound of frustr. >> I think we just came up with a stupid audio word for it. Like >> I think Alex told me and I think maybe having a joke with me. I don't know. But anyway, yeah, I made the ship working at the moment that I wanted to sound particularly dirty. >> So >> particularly bluffy. >> Bluffy. >> Bluffy. Yeah. So, that was entirely made up of uh lever recordings. >> I'm I'm sorry. [laughter] >> All right. >> I'm making the connections in my head saying it.

64. 00:50:43

    >> You you you had a ship weapon you wanted to sound particularly bloff, so you used leather. >> Not weapons. >> No weapon. Thrusters. >> Thrusters. >> Yeah. Okay. >> that that's better. That makes more sense. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That makes more sense. Ship thruster that you wanted to sound bluffy. >> Bluffy. Yeah. >> Do you guys do ship weapons? >> We >> It's It's handled Well, it's weapons are separate from ships. Uh so they're actually handled >> Joe Cooper does weapons. >> Mhm. >> And he's he's revamping the system actually. >> Yes, he is. He is. >> So um he's coming up with a new system for weapons so they have better impact and more presence, more punch and more kick. >> And you notice a lot of the new weapons sound a lot better. Like the the alpha alpha weapons are particularly

65. 00:51:31

    Nice. >> But um we're aware that some of them sound a little on the muted side, but it's >> that's probably because these, you know, we're undoing the system. It's like taking the wallpaper off a room before you re rewall, isn't it? It's going to sound There's going to be a dipping quality before it gets Did you like that one? >> Wallpaper one. [laughter] It's it's going to get it's going to get better. Uh but it's it's gone quieter first and then he's going to increase the um the experience of the weapon significantly which is quite exciting. On the topic of weird things though that go into our sounds, we do have a ritual where we put animal sounds in the toilets. So if there's ever a toilet extend when when you pull the toilets out, you know, when you interact with the toilet and it comes up. Yeah. >> There's always an animal in it. So I think I can't remember what ship I did

66. 00:52:19

    it on, but there's a gorilla in the toilet. >> Uh, I can't remember the one you told me before. >> I'd have you sectioned if you said that's a bus stop. There's a gorilla in the toilet. >> That would be a good album name for >> So yeah, there's that. We like to do silly things like that. I mean, it's all processed. You wouldn't be able to tell it's a gorilla, but >> in a door, but and I thought it was the door that we had to do it on, not the actual toilet, which I only learned. >> I think it's just any part of the toilet, I guess. >> Just any part of the toilet. Stick a gorilla in there. >> Hey, who hasn't [clears throat] stuck a gorilla in a toilet? what are the audio team's favorites when it comes to sound design? Oh, I guess your favorite ship, I suppose.

67. 00:53:07

    >> I think everyone liked the Wolf, right? I think Josh, that was Josh who did the thrusters for that. >> I'm not allowed to say that. >> Uh, I think like Yeah, engine wise, I think that was highly everyone liked that. I think he set the bar. Thanks Josh for making us work harder. [laughter] >> No, but Josh did a really good job on that. It was really good. >> I think for me this Well, for different reasons, the Stinger sounds really good. Perseus, >> um, yeah, Paladin clip. They all sound good. I don't have a favorite. >> I like the ship. Like, it's just so rattly and like it feels reactive to your the way the way you ride the ship, fly the ship. It just feels everything is about to fall apart and that's how it exactly should sound like.

68. 00:53:54

    >> Thank you. [laughter] >> And what are you guys working on now? >> Ships. [laughter] >> Some ships. Ships. >> A particular origin ship that you were talking about. >> I thought maybe >> I thought maybe I could trick them triple. No, >> maybe. >> There are a lot we're working on actually at the moment. >> I mean, this is only four of the team. There's Ilia and Jack and Nathan as well. >> So, this is just, you know, just three of the six people. So, I mean, we're doing a significant amount of ships >> on on on the ship audio team. It's it's want to be careful. I think when we put the thread up, we said audio team and when we named the stream, we said audio team. I think uh when we made the the thumbnail, we probably said audio team. Uh it should it should realistically have been ship audio team. Maybe we see

69. 00:54:42

    if size are around if that maybe there's a chance of getting that updated. >> Yeah. Um but yeah, when you say ju just to clarify like when you say there's only six people in the team and whatever the ship the ship audio ship audio team. >> So you're working on an you're you're working on an unannounced origin. >> What are you working on? Not the name. Just you give us the brand. >> What are you working on, Josh? >> A a Drake ship. >> A Drake ship. All right. I know what that is. >> Yeah. Uh [laughter] or like >> sizable. >> Okay. Okay. And and what about you, Yon? See catches that. >> Working on an Aegis. >> You're working on an Aegis. >> Very fun. >> Oh, right. Right, right, right, right, right, right. >> I'm having a lot of fun with this one, particularly this one. >> It's a shark with a freaking laser beam

70. 00:55:30

    on it. [laughter] >> Nice. cool. Uh, we got time for a couple more questions. Let's have a little fun before we get going. What was the There was a There was a There was a fun one in here. Um, >> they're all fun. >> God, you know, this is going to come out, >> Simon. This is probably more for you. >> Was it >> horns? >> Oh, yes. Every single There there's We're going to do We're going to do the greatest hits of every shot of every audio show here. >> Horns. Give our ships horns. You know, we don't have enough keybinds in this game. I'm sure they we can find a control alt function three that would allow that would allow us to have horns. Come on, give us horns. [snorts] >> Okay. Will we be hearing those horns in space? [laughter]

71. 00:56:18

    >> Cuz they're they're there already perhaps. >> What what if what what if it's like a like a ship to ship communication system that just >> I think it's great idea. We've got >> horns. >> Plenty of shiporn ship horns. >> I think it's a good Yes. Yes. >> I want them. I want them. I can't promise them at the moment, but yeah, of course it' be fantastic. >> Uh the the other long time uh as a Tanoi system, you know, the the ability this is your captain speaking that you you know to be able to communicate to everybody in the ship. It's probably the oldest of ship bridge. >> Yeah, I'm I'm I'm looking at that and ATC stuff. So, air traffic control things and and much more information coming from the um the dashboard from

72. 00:57:07

    you know from actually when you're flying. I want there to be more kind of call outs and locationational base ATCs and I mean people have asked about radio stations. I can't kind of validate that at the moment because you know that will be >> part of the ship experience. Yes, of course we'll be having those. >> So, let's see the the the Hall of Fame ones are the horn, the the Tanoi system, being able to communicate with everybody in your ship, give announcement, u general quarters, red alert, yellow alert, whatever you being being able to to set station on your ship, anything. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Okay. Sure. Of course. Yeah. Uh oh. What's Dustin? What's Dustin messaging me on? Dustin usually doesn't message me. Ah, yes. I can't

73. 00:57:57

    talk about that. Um, finally, this this is you haven't been on for ages. Uh, this is your first show and stuff and it's it's I who knows when we're going to have you on again. It's it's been a while. What do you want people to know? What do you want people to understand about ship audio? That, you know, that's our focus today. It's the ship audio team. We're talking about ship audio. When you when people walk away from this show and they're like, "Wow, I can't wait for Simon's hair to go in game." >> What's left of it? [laughter] >> Um, what what do you want them to walk away with? >> Shut your eyes. And then when you hear a sound of a ship, you know which ship You know which manufacturer it is. you

74. 00:58:46

    know the voice that's used in that ship that that's from that ship and that manufacturer. So that's the dream scenario that we get what's called an you know an earworm is something you you memorize and you know is the sound of you know I can make many references from other films and and games but fundamentally that would be the dream scenario you close your eyes you know that ships's behind you and indeed we have to do that with 360 degree audio you need to you need to hear it first before you see it so that's the dream scenario >> and as you know that's a whole topic in itself how we're going to be bringing bespoke sound to each manufacturer. how we're going to play with play with sound in order to how do we achieve the sound of you know luxury leather compared with the sound of a plastic tractor seat if

75. 00:59:34

    you do you know what I mean how do we do that sonically I mean there's absolutely no time to talk about that but we do want to kind of grade the the sonic experience by the price of the ship and the quality of the ship the weight of the ship and the function of the ship but the most dreamlike thing for me shut your eyes and you know what you're listening to >> that includes ships that you're in and ships that are flying past you. >> It's Yes. Yeah. I want people to know that, you know, we do we we are listening like there's a lot of suggestions that people come out with like you know ship horns and we have talked about it and you know actually a better example be ship flybys. We actually pushed the priority right up for that cuz we really wanted that and I know that the community really wanted that too. >> And we are listening like we're here. >> Yeah. We're here to improve the experience for you on audio you know [clears throat] like we want these

76. 01:00:22

    things too. Um it's sometimes it just does just take time like and we are blocked by other things like we do need code support for a lot of stuff. >> Um but you know we we are that we discuss a lot of the things that are asked today internally and we are changing priorities for things like the flybys for instance. >> It just takes some time. >> Anybody want to add anything? Yeah, I would say again the fact that this is a live service game and our our work constantly comes out and we get to see the the players reaction, it's it's a pretty nice feeling. It's like very validating and uh seeing the positive feedback kind of gives us more motivation and when we see things like I really like the engine on sound or when you land the ship it kind of gives us um that uh extra motivation to keep the

77. 01:01:12

    standard at least at that level or push it even beyond. So so people experience those nice moments time and time again. Yeah. You compare the ship audio experience where it was a year ago to what it is now. We want to do that again the next year and again. So we just constantly pushing for quality. >> Uh Yans 89 in the chat says, "Ship audio is in polish surely for Squadron 42. How can they be planning this?" Uh the simple answer to that is single player versus multiplayer, my friend. It's a whole different bag of hammers when you have to include networking and and in a single player game you control where the camera is at all times and where everything else is. Things don't have to be nearly as systemic uh in a single player game as they do in a multiplayer

78. 01:01:59

    game. So, it's a it's it's a wildly different beast. And we struggle with every team, not just audio team. every every discipline in the in the company struggles with, oh, we can have this solution here, but it doesn't quite work here and it's like that. So, don't let anything that's said today about the Star Citizenship audio team and whatnot uh whole wildly different beast. All right, that's it for the show, guys. Thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us. Um, >> thank you for having us. >> Hey, I I I've always got I've had a soft spot for I always have a soft spot for us. So, anytime we can get you on here, I do still want to do that longer form show at some point. I just got to find five minutes in any of anybody's schedules in order to do it. Um, uh, what's going on right now? Like in the game Lunar New Year's still

79. 01:02:50

    going on. There's there's, uh, there there there's an origin promotion happening at the moment. Uh, uh, uh, the the the there was something I was supposed to promote here. new release. I'm I'm I've lost it. I'm doing bad marketing right now. There's something I'm supposed to promote here and I've lost it. Oh well. Uh I'm sure I'll hear about it. [laughter] Anybody want to mention Anybody want to Anybody want to wanna want to ping me right now who's watching? Like Jared, you're supposed to say this. Nope. All right. So, that's it. Uh uh Simon, Tristan, Yan, Joshua, thank you so much for taking the time uh to be here on the show with us. Uh come back uh next week. Uh we have the one, the only Shawn Tracy. We're going one-on-one

80. 01:03:40

    with Shawn. Question thread will go up on Spectrum tomorrow, so keep an eye out for that. Uh always a fun one uh when we have the the Canadian destroyer in. Uh thank you guys. Um take care everybody. Bye. Bye. >> Bye.