Star Citizen Live Q&A: Invictus All-Vehicles

17 May 202401:09:131,859 linesWatch on YouTube ↗

Transcript — every row opens the video at that moment

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I don't know they all BL go I didn't even know they just it it wasn't supposed to break off that was thing absolutely legitimately happened that reaction was very real yeah hi everybody uh what are we doing hi welcome to Star Citizen live the uh Invictus all vehicles Q&A I'm your host uh Jared Huckaby uh if you've never seen an Invictus all vehicles Q&A before uh it's where we spent about an hour and we put uh questions to to the people who make the vehicles and spaceships and and and and and never a jalap still not a jalape uh uh for Star Citizen in Squadron 42 um this this is going to be our chance to uh get to know who they are get to know how they work uh we do this every every year for Invictus uh some of the information will be the same some of the
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information will change we compare notes with last year and see how the process has evolved um eventually at the end we'll get to some status update stuff we did put up a thread and the thread was almost entirely where is my spaceship uh that's not what this show is about but we'll we'll do some status updates at the end so you can stay tuned for that or if you're watching on YouTube Just skip past we'll put a little wamac call on there and you can ignore all the good learning that we're going to do and just get to where's my spaceship at the end for you so joining us on the show this week let's introduce our our our hapless victims I mean my close personal friends uh starting with the chair closest to me Ben Curtis tell everybody who you are and what you do for Star Citizen uh I'm Ben Curtis uh I'm the vehicle and weapons art director first Star Citizen um so I look after weapons and spaceships make them pretty you still
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doing weapons still doing weapons you hand that off when you took over no no still do them both of them is that why neither are quite as good as they could be probably yeah yeah do lots of things okay rather than anything really well right yeah uh sitting directly behind him uh Mark the voice of Hercules uh tell everybody who you are and what you do uh my name is Mark Gibson I'm the Le vehicle content designer at cloud and Pan games and what's a lead vehicle content designer do I design content for the vehicle team uh we we design the actual ships that Everyone likes to play with we decide what goes on them how strong they are what the role is how thin the armor should be how thick the armor should be we do the general design for them so when a ship uh uh comes out initially very good and then it gets nerfed afterwards Oh you talked to toler's team
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about that Toler yeah okay uh Cory also actually set the ships up as well not just I mean we make them yeah we don't just design them we actually Implement them make them actually like making the the stuff yeah sorry S no it's sry it was your time over you want to spend your inaction you know showering Mark with price go right ahead it does this all time it's yeah uh I'm Cory banford I'm a senior lead vehicle artist on the vehicle content team um so basically just helping um the vehicle artists you know basically day to-day and and trying to sort of get our stuff together and you know improve things and that kind of stuff did you say senior lead yeah CU there's senior and then there's lead and now you're senior lead yeah I think they're just making up
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titles at this point how long have you been here uh how long have I been at the company yeah years eight years and a bit I've been here longer than this guy I want to be senior lead you need to talk to your boss mate hey Chris now you watch the show senior lead of whatever the heck I do uh and then last and certainly least JN crew tell everybody who you are and what you do uh I'm JN crew I'm the vehicle director uh so I have the pleasure of looking after all the teams so all the designers all the artists uh Tech artists all the people that make spaceships and vehicles not just in the UK but in the US and Montreal as well yeah uh Disturbed Angel says Jared aren't you the only person who does what you do yeah that's why I don't get a who who am I a lead of um it's just me um all right so we're going to jump into
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the questions our first section our first topic of discussion for the for this week's show what are you looking at Cory you just you're just looking at me on the monitor I was looking at the chat actually I'm sorry I shouldn't do that I said don't look at the at the I'm sorry don't give them a destroy your soul all right I was just want to see if they were saying nice things about me I promise chat never said anything nice about you oh that's not true chat if you want to say something nice about Corey take this moment be fair he did get the best uh ingame character creator apart from yours obviously but I saw some pretty I saw some mixed Jareds to be honest okay well I saw an amazing you're you're you're of course referring to uh uh when the when the Character Creator first came out and people were doing the things somebody attempted to
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do everybody on the ship team and Cory's look had bore a striking resemblance perhaps not to Cory but to a a fictional ruler of fantasy land quite quite possibly yeah yeah how did that make you feel Cory uh I I mean I've been actively pursuing the Lord farquad athetic for a while so I mean it's good to get the recognition really final form it yeah right I'm all right with it when when we did talk about potentially getting you a farquad outfit and showing up here we forgot yeah next time let's do it all right so we've deled and died enough let's get into the topics of discussion uh the first point uh area of discussion for this week's show is basically how vehicles get made we're going to talk for a little bit on the YouTube channels you say how Vehicles get made here we're going to talk a bit about the process um why uh how they get made why certain
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decisions are made stuff like that and jump into that so let's start we've got two artists well an artist and an art director and a designer and a an overall you you were originally design director now you're just kind of overall director uh but it's not just designers and artists who make the ships so walk walk us through start start with designers an artist but take a through who makes these things what are the positions don't shout everybody else uh well if we start sort of roughly in pipeline order uh you tend to start with uh designers coming up with the briefs um then it goes to like it goes around a lot of people to make sure the designers are not doing Wild Things in briefs um that sounds a bit odd but okay uh there concept team a designer makes
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boom booms in yeah concept team um makes the uh words become pretty pictures uh then we've got the vehicle art team who make pretty pictures become pretty 3D objects uh designers set them up Tech artist set them up and then we've got a whole bunch of uh Downstream uh and sort of Upstream dependencies uh if if the new vehicle or an existing vehicle has gameplay gameplay people need to work with us on that to give us information especially if it's new coming alongside a vehicle they need to sort of work hand inand with hey feature X is doing this we need this from your ship and we do that and they go actually it's not quite not quite how we invisioned it can we adjust things as we go and those gameplay people aren't NE aren't on ship teams those are gameplay teams The
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Tourist and linman and and the yogas and stuff they're the people that that make salvaging that make mining stuff yeah it's the the feature development teams and the the designer takes it from the original concept all the way through and we we lias with a lot of different departments and teams to make sure sure that all of the features that make the ships fun to play actually work when they're implemented on vehicles cuz it's a a very different experience of how some will be with FPS ground and how it then needs to be implemented on an actual vehicle to work so there there's a lot of back and forth and maybe things change and tweak to make it work a bit better with a vehicle cuz it just depends on how the original gameplay Loop was envisioned to work yeah and I think you know we say that we've got Upstream teams and downstream teams but then one of our Upstream teams like you the feature team that developed mining
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or Salvage probably better more relevant or more recent thing is they also have dependencies and Upstream teams so you know they'll have input from you know the UI team and The Branding team and and whoever else to get their feature working then we kind of Supply them so we're kind of Downstream to them but it's kind of a big web of connected teams my understanding is that The Branding team sometimes tells you what colors a manufacturer should be and should not be we we have discussions over it yeah how does that make passionate discussions yeah um I think it's good to get these things ired out and get them out in the open so yeah I think uh to be fair they've done a really good job at at bringing all of the um like I think everyone is a little bit guilty sometimes of you know zeroing in on the
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details of one particular thing so you know we're we tend to have years that are quite heavy in a particular manufacturer so when we have a year that's quite heavy in a particular manufacturer we tend to kind Zone in on that and you sometimes you know sometimes you you desperately want to do something different the brand guys are like that didn't really uh work with that yeah no I mean they're pretty flexible I think the the the biggest one has been the Crusader stuff where you know the red and the blue well the red and the white and the blue and the white and that sort of stuff so getting those things kind of more consistent across the the game is it started out as the red and the blue and now it's moved to the well no well so it's a bit of a story I don't if now was a good the red and I started with the red and white and it went the blue and white but then I noticed the firebird looks red and white the first time I saw the firebird I thought it looked like Crusader but you can't like colors yeah we have a lot of gray ships and you can't say gray ships are
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like some colors like AR goes orange MH does that mean we're never going to make another orange ship I don't know like I don't know like orange tins ship I guess you get red Fords or you get red Ferraris mhm so yeah oh I'm for it I'm I'm we've we've had these conversations before where I'm very much for the you know the you know when the uh when the new Ford Mustang came out or what or the I think it was the charger that was technically first in that and then you saw all these other manufacturers go oh we can do that and you saw that one design from that manufacturers start to replicate out to other manufacturers I think they absolutely say well I want to be like we need our answer to that and I need our answer to that so you know the the manufacturers should uh divide and then converge and all this kind all that kind of stuff their looks I do think it's important that you know as as we've mentioned many times that you
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lots of teams work on lot lot of things at once so if you can bring all of that stuff to kind of uh be coherent it's really good but that doesn't mean there's not flexibility in it because you know not every Crusader Captain pilot wants a white ship and why should they I love color I'm always for the more colorful things um all right so that uh talk audio who a obviously the audio folks play a big role in the ship's personality identity M VFX huge as well it gives the ambient effects and everything we get help from lighting team as well so that they do some standardization so that we get a better feel on headlights and like the intensities of them recently had a massive pass from them so they set new standards to make sure that we had nice consistency amongst all the headlights it's that there's barely any teams that
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we don't work with one way or another eventually yeah even like uh once the vehicle is done ready for release then there's all the teams that deal with actually getting out the door so there the platform teams the the website teams um an amount of QA time that get spent on them to make sure CU right the end day when it goes out people start using them they want them to be in the best state that can get them so trying to find all the issues and bugs and resolve them and get them just to be as good as possible for the release my favorite team is the marketing team because I take our stuff they just make it really really pretty so yeah not a fan you're not a oh you're not a fan of marketing I love love like you give it to them you're not quite sure what you're going to get back in the trailer and then you kind of get the the initial cut you're like okay and there's days I feel like marketing days I feel like communting there's days
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I feel like editor of the school newspaper and I'm just I'm kind of out here doing my thing but I'm probably not supposed to say I'm got favorites am I yeah you have favorites I have favorites I love the Genesis staring I The Rock DS The Rock DS is stupid why don't you like I've got six questions about the rock DS and when like about it what don't you like about it we don't got time we don't got time got time we don't got time for today all right so obviously what we've gotten here what we can take from that is that ships are made by far more than just the people that are on distinct vehicle teams you don't have individual VFX artists you don't have individual audio audio folks it's it's it's your team working with a vast network of other teams uh you look like you I I
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just like we also got sh production because they're the ones that make all of these teams work together and you know quite often cuz they're not actually clicking a button and moving stuff around in the editor they kind of get maybe forgotten about but yeah they're a massive part of it as well is making sure that all works together who's your favorite producer I'm not allowed to say interesting yeah they're like children you got to yeah kind of favorites you know whichever one you don't answer for is going to make things worse yeah yeah exactly yeah can't decide who's going to come through that door first Contin production just expect our calendars be completely booked moving forward yeah all your timeline's going to go to hell now this was your chance and you didn't take it all right so obvious so let's let's bring this back to within the vehicle
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teams though so there are a collection of people who are dedicated to this the VFX people have this and the VFX for the rest of the game audio people have this and audio for the rest of the game and stuff uh for the people who are dedicated the PE people who spend all their time making vehicles uh we've got five studios around the world um talking how's how's this broken up well where are their teams uh what's their makeup do they have focuses do they have like does does Montreal only work on this and Austin only work on this kind of stuff how's how's the vehicle team break down so generally speaking the way we assign is no one Studio site has any particular manufacturer but we'll do it by project so if that that say we were going to make ad
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know the Crusader jalopy we would no say not that do that's so we would figure out how long it was going to take by doing an estimate once we had a general estimate we'd see the resources and B with but generally it would try and stay within a single team so it would either stay within the Montreal team and the design of the Montreal team would handle it and the artists would take it through obviously not all Studios have all all the teams that we need such as audio and VFX so we'll have to go to a different studio for support for that but for the actual internal vehicle team we try to keep them local to the actual studio so they they all get it's a lot easier to work within the same time zone for quick quick iteration on things um and we and the UK team for example is much much
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bigger than some of the others so we actually have that the vehicle team from an art perspective split into three separate groups to make it easier to manage the different vehicles that would take through the actual pipeline process and the the vehicle team's got to the size from an art perspective where we actually need three different art teams within the UK side to do it um but generally speaking it it's not I know that in the past people used to think that oh the US do all of the RSI ships I think it was and the UK do all of the Drake ships but that that was just a what was assigned to them at the time um and it'll be like that moving forward it's whatever time slots we have on different teams and it could be that we change one team might work on a big ship for 18 months and then big ship is tiring for 18 months so then we do
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smaller projects afterwards and the big ship goes to a different group instead um doing back to back Capital ships is you know obviously well don't yeah crushing yeah yeah it's um I think uh giving people well yeah giving people a variety of Manufacturers to work on is is important um you know if you're making if you're only making Anvil ships for like five years you're obviously going to get pretty bored of anvil ships um so I think it is nice that people get the opportunity to work on different manufacturers yeah um from an artistic standpoint like keeping it fresh um challenging yourself um you know with learning new Styles basically we've got a whole section we're going to move into where essentially boils down to why why do you do this why do you do this instead of this but
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I I think what I want to make sure that we get this here cuz we're touched on it and we may not remember it then this you have to keep the artists the artist designers you have to keep them engaged it's it's it's it's it's an important an important factor not the only one obviously we'll talk about all the factors in a bit but it's it's very important to to to consider this this person just did for Drake ships you know we need to give them something else we need to give them something else to keep them engaged to keep them doing the best quality work that they can but at the same time I'm sure we won't say any names I'm sure there's got to be somebody in the history where it's like you know they tried to miss ship once and was like you know what we're never giving you a Miss ship ever again you are clearly awesome at Anvil and awesome
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at agis but that's a style that just doesn't work with your brain so these consider am I Am I Wrong these considerations have to exist you're absolutely right in that people have favorites yeah people have definitely have favorite Brands and people have brands that they just don't particularly like which is kind of I guess life in general but um I think it is super important to uh like challenge people so you know a lot of people in in like the creative industry really strive off of that you know Challenge and reward so giving people new opportunities to kind of um try out new things and and kind of you know get new more experience in in different fields is is like super super important and ultimately you know if if you are making the same thing over and over and over different ships but you know you
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you you're always on a particular art style um there is that element of burning people out with that and all you really kind of get from that is is like a drop in ideas and a drop in kind of creativity I don't care about that Ben I just want my ship made what ship do you want Genesis Starliner all right um no the other thing yeah the other thing is worth mentioning about that is there is a benefit to having experience with a certain manufacturer M um you know so if you've worked on a if you've worked on a Crusaders ship before you probably understand the style you know right and it's going to take you less time to ramp up and get to know it so there's certainly a benefit to you know people having a broad experience and being able to like you know work basically say you know I've worked on Drake ships I've
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worked on Crusaders ships you know that way because we are divvying out stuff like you know it's not like we we've got a drake team or whatever it's Ed sword yeah it's kind of there's PR there's pros and cons it's it's a healthy balance between variety and also making sure that people have the right skills to to get the job done so I want I we're on this I want to I want to I want I'm going to jump ahead I want to get is still this topic we let's move into the you know the what what's going on in why phase you know for lack of a better term why why do we decide what ships get or why or how I suppose how is actually how do we decide what ships get made we we touched on on some things obviously you know it's it's there's got to be you know you know using this you know we got to make the uh we got to make this ship
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and it's in a brand and we've got one we got one person free who knows this brand and is really great but we've got three people free who know this brand and what not so maybe that one gets prioritized because we can kick it out faster and then come to this that's one consideration we sort of just touched on but let's let's start from the top here how do we decide so what gets made it's this is my special kind of say we're all just is um we look at the schedule obviously we know Star Citizen we we joke about intally we have six quarterly patches that we do every year we have the four courtly patches inv victus and ie uh and we always deliver at least one ship in every one of those patches if not two
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or three um we also sometimes do Point patches as well so we we can look at a year so pick this year next year whatever and go right we've got these slots there are ships going in here and then we'll go through and go if we are going to do Capital ships that's going to take up a big chunk of the team so putting a capital ship in here means the rest of these slots become much smaller um we have to balance the delivering backlog ships with fresh ones as well um and it sort of sorts itself out once you put a few it's like doing a big jigsaw puzzle you go around the edges well I do go around the edges and then uh you know where you're going from there um so once you put a few of the big pieces in play you're sort of you
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don't really have a lot of options sort of dictates the rest um and then we go through that with Chris and rich and they go actually no we don't want we don't want to do this cap ship here we want it here instead that changes the order or no we don't actually want that there we want two other things uh so it's it's a lot of iteration and it sort of boils down to we have chunks of time a finite amount of people like it's we could put everyone on Capital ships and then you'd perhaps get two or three a year globally and then we've got Patches without anything two or three ships period um and we're just talking about new ships as well I think we're going to talk about this more in a bit as well 4.0 has a a huge amount of support that the vehicle team needs to deliver uh so we have to factor that in as well we can't just go all new ships all the time
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we have to work with those other teams like the gameplay teams we talked about they might be coming online with a feature like Base building we we need to support that as well so it's sort of a balance that one always often dictates like what we have to put into the schedule cuz if it random example like when Salvage came online we need the vehicles that can support Salvage so we have to make sure that we can have a vehicle ready to go with that game play as it comes in line with mining but also with that like it's not just doing the salvage vehicle it's the fact that we needed to do a part on every vehicle in game to get them to support that feature Salvage yeah salvageable and even like little things like oh we want to you know add fire extinguishers and you're like okay cool that's that's easy right like our ships are big and it's like well it's easy on some stuff it's not easy on others and
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if you think like ' got I think we were doing the day we were looking at um you right spend spend a month on each ship and you're like okay that's one person for like 16 years it's a lot of work right or 16 people for one year but again that's you know then you get nothing else you get nothing else so so I think you even like little features when you're talking at the scale of the game we've got it does become like quite a challenge to play that kind of jenger of of stuff which is why you know we uh have like we we try and fit these things in uh like say oh there's a pocket of time here that's got two months on someone that could be used for a small ground vehicle or we could actually take off support for three other features that are coming in right and that gets more gameplay so and you you've been saying features like zth gamer in the
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chat hi zith gamer uh says we have anything a capital ship would be a huge feature not really a capital ship is not a feature that's a big giant piece of art it uses game features interesting gameplay well it's not even just like all the is a huge piece of content it isn't a feature and to the thing that will make the capital ship engaging is all different features but we can't easily Implement a whole new feature that's meaningful and impactful on only one vehicle because the realistically for it to work it there's going to be things that are going to affect all the other vehicles as well so Resource Network is a a random example to make resource work we can't just say well this one ship has it it it's a big
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huge system and to get that to actually work across the board on everything we need to do at least a base level support across everything which is a huge amount of work but if we want that feature and everything that comes with it we have to go back and adjust and alter all the existing chips to at least work to function with the feature and that's and just that's not to say that you know we're not punting all capital ships down the line wait wait till we get to the end we'll have some we'll have something for I promise uh but it's it's important to remember that you guys don't make the gameplay features so it it's it's we were guilty we've talked about this before so we're not I'm not admitting anything we haven't admitted we have been guilty in the past of of kicking Vehicles out that don't have gameplay sta it's it's like it's like well here it is because because it was Art
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complete yeah because you could technically fly it around and it's like well we didn't want to sit on it but we didn't have game playing with and that doesn't that didn't build a good experience but you know I I'm not going to say we have learned a lot over you know the 12 years of of our development that was one of the lessons I think we learned kind kind of the hard way you know as we kicked out ships that were gorgeous and they were designed well they didn't do anything because the the relevant gameplay system wasn't there so as part of this calculus of figuring out what ships we make and win there's also that well what can the gameplay teams give us at that you know at that and they support this ship with their schedule and their requirements and if they can't well okay maybe that ship doesn't get made this year it gets made the next year and stuff like this so
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there there's all those things you said in the calculus there's it's it's a it's a very complex you know you know system of moving parts and finding windows and and priorities and that's my next question is priorities so over the years I think the priority I I I I I've seen the priorities of the entire game change you know one year this is the most important thing and then the next year that's the most important thing and like that we're we're we read the same Reddit we read the the we we watch the same YouTube videos we look at the same uh twitch streams we see the things and go oh and we go okay no that that was a third priority but really I'm looking at this I'm seeing an action that needs to become second priority or first priority
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and we change um right now in this minute knowing that this could change Monday morning what is the priority for the ship team for the ship teams what what what what are what what what are you wanting to do I mean I think that varies depending on which department you ask cuz like from a a designer perspective our number one priority is to make sure that the ship it makes sense from a Flor navigation point of view and that it functions and all the features inside the ship that are currently available to function function so if there's a gameplay Loop or there's content that should work in it they do work that that's our priority that's our number one and to make sure that when you look at the ship it makes sense for it to be
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that way but that's not Arts priority they have a different set of priorities for what we do and it it'll be the same for Tech art they they depending on the department depends on what your number one priorities and John's will be completely different again because you're more about the bigger picture rather than bigger picture so the vehicle team exists like vehicles are the heroes of our of this game like the best analogy that people keep saying like in other games you have Hero characters sort of ships are those for Star Citizen a feel and that everyone's got their favorite they're there to do mechanics so for the vehicle team it's it's delivering content that supports those mechanics whether it's updating existing mechanics like we talked about before adding in Salvage and refueling was another one that was there's no point just putting a ref refuel port on
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just one ship for the staff we need to do it on all of them and that takes time um and working with those other gameplay teams to go like hey patch the quter two patch is going to bring this feature online so we need to update ships with that Q3 is going to be this Q4 is going to be this q1 next year is going to be this Q2 next year is going to be this and sort of getting away from what we did in the past like you mentioned of just pting the ships out just cuz they were done and working with the other teams to sort of it's great singers ship out there it's better seeing it out there doing the job it supposed to do um where on the list of priorities would you place woo lights Ben Curtis oh should I delegate that that question to Corey because yeah probably uh we would
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like they weren't going to stop it going out so we you about the lack of weiu Lights On The Met back yeah yeah but but you said it not me I I was I was Pro I think we were all pro we lights uh the schedule was however I have read some feedback on the discussions over this and I'm maybe thinking that uh if we were to do them we certainly need a better way of controlling them because I believe that they can be a little bit um intrusive if you're trying to be maybe a little bit more stealthy that's the Goddamn point then yeah I know you want you want people to see your we lights that's why you have we lights you need to put your headlights on so you can see where you're going that that just use your wiu lights that you see even better okay uh uh there was mixed feedback but I was reading but no I wanted them you show me who says that other stuff I'll
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stop your mixed feedback okay they'll never speak about anything ever again to be clear we wanted to put them on it was just a schedule thing yeah a matter of time like we we needed to get the ship out record that it will get weiu lights at some point do Don mcavan promis the car yeah just akes um and after Dan does the Carrick blast Shield yeah after Dan does the Carrick yeah the blast Shield uh I think I think everyone wants them to have WiiU lights we want it to be honest the team wants it to have wi lights the exterior needs a bit of a pass anyway with things like uh damage uh and so on as well like there was a couple of things that we wanted to get in for it that we didn't quite manage to to get in time well it's we only had one guy working on it and it was sort of his first project as well so you know okay
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well it's what happens when we do variance of old the vehicles so like obviously to um release a vehicle with a new feature CU obviously you've been getting asked for the medac for years um we we found a slot where we could get something in to do it but we didn't have a slot big enough to completely gold standard the B Ursa because that's what is it's a variant of the b s so so that's why the front is still the old style dashboard it's not new and updated like the links is is it it's we we have so much time and we get as much done in that time as we can but at some point it's a case of either nothing goes in that slot or something else goes in that slot and it was a case of we could get what we did gain but not everything that we want we would loved to do a full gold standard on the Ura but that isn't the time slot that we had and if we did do a
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full gold standard on the Ura we definitely wouldn't have had time to do the the medy back so it's just about seeing what we have time to fit in the slots that we have and and you know I don't want the lack of WiiU lights to distract from how good a job hadie did on the oh it's really cool like he smashed it he absolutely smashed it so uh yeah there's a few things we missed off but uh hopefully people will appreciate what what was included yeah I mean let me go on record to saying I'm having fun with the guys here but I mean it's a it's a great addition uh we'll you know with the with the medbed changes and everything and stuff like that we'll talk about in a little bit uh but yeah it's just it it's it's just you know you know I'm I'm American I want butter and syrup on my pancakes we did we did put space to put your um medical tool I saw that was cool when when when
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when the when the gameplay guys got that they literally like oh cool yeah so we're learning I'm just sad we didn't get a chance to do the uh NHS ambulance skin on it I love that skin did anyone know we never released the NHS skin did we that was the only time I was really been scared for my job well I mean I'm from America if I we run away from ambulances comes at you you're going to go broke so it's like no stay away I know that story um all right so we last point on this on this topic of of of of of of why certain V Vehicles get made let me drill down specifically to one cab I want I want to ask the question because we see it everywhere why do sometimes we choose a new vehicle over
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something from the backlog a lot of time uh it does generally come down to size and like scope um and it's gameplay as well it's gameplay as well a lot of the new vehicles come with new or updated gaml and it's a lot more time efficient to do that in a new vehicle than it is to go look at one of the old backlog ones which probably at this point needs a concept pass as well concept's another finite resource uh that we need to manage um not that we want to never do those backlog chips we do they just come with a a larger cost than all the all the things we've learned over these years originally designed with older metrics with older ideas older processes look at the car as a prime example right the the
00:34:45
original concept the interior did not fit inside the ship to try and get everything inside that ship it was never going to happen so we either cut scope on the ship or concept yeah so it had to go back to concept but then the concept artists have a situation where they're trying to preserve The Old Ship while also add everything that's needed and it it is arguably more difficult than doing a fresh concept and we do want to get the vehicles out with the new features the SP gameplay loops and it's not that they're never going to get done but certain time boxes especially if a game play Team says we're going to have this feature ready for this quarter we want to try and have the vehicle ready to go air vehicle to go out with that Fe older vehicles do have gameplay ties now like we we sort of got through that backlog of ones that don't have gameplay tied to
00:35:34
them so things like the Starliner yes we could do it but there'd be nothing to do there'd be nothing to do it's we don't have VIP transport well it's not VIP we don't have transport missions we don't really have NPCs getting on and off our ships so again we do it spend a bunch of time on it and if the gameplay team hasn't done their work it's sort of or if it's just not a priority for them like if server meshing or doing Starliner well my understanding from Reading social media is that marketing just tells you what you have to do marketing certainly have a say in what they would like but at the end of the day it comes down to Chris Rich myself balancing that with what's best for the game
00:36:25
opions Sorry I'm just I'm really izing there's absolutely nothing I can say here that will change anybody else's mind so we'll just move on uh let's see um we talked about how there's a disconnect between disconnect that sometimes exists between the ship and the ship features so like that I don't think we need to uh uh relitigate that uh let's talk about variants so with the firebird and the uh nura do you like it when it's called the nursea I love it only heard about that recently I wish we'd figured it out during the actual development cuz we always nickname ships when they're going through development just because it happens organically with the team we never came up with nurat and I love it I wish we'd figure that out so the firebird and the nursea are both variants of existing vehicles um like I said I've been here a decade now I think
00:37:17
occasionally we go back occasionally like like like the masters of flight series when we did four new variants of of existing uh ships and stuff sometimes we go back but we have a lot in the past you know it's it's a lot of our time and effort has been focused on either finishing up the the backlog or creating new things for new game features and stuff uh we don't always just look at what we have and be like you know if we tweak this and tweak this and tweak this we could get another purpose out of it uh with the firebird and the nursa here is this a turning point for that are are we now looking to make more variants to go back to look is this just a coincidence and I shouldn't make anything of it I think I think it's it's mixed really because um as we've already kind of spoken quite a lot about is is
00:38:04
about you know that that schedule jenger that you got to play to try and get or Tetris you got try and play to get things into work together um it does tie into also bringing ships up to our kind of current standard as well um because a lot of the time that going back and revisiting other ships to bring them up to kind of the current standard is it's it's not a short amount of time it's not a investment that goes into it the the Retaliator is an example um you know a lot of things have changed since that ship was made and we keep internally with us like an onion like you take one layer off you're like oh wa it we need to do okay that layer comes off you're like oh no that means we need to that and like before you know it you're kind of almost back to square one but you're trying to the same with the whole C limit what we did because then you
00:38:52
started and noticing more yeah and and it's about like restoring an old car yeah but you want to you want to retain some of its original character as well you don't want to go in there and and make a Mark I you want to kind of like build on it but sorry with the variant um youo it if we're doing bringing stuff up to current standards and we're making a variant at the same time it becomes a little bit easier because you kind of like get more from the same way yeah like like I think you were saying earlier that you know when people have got into that particular zone for that particular vehicle or art style whatever it is it's quicker or you're already there in the theut of it you know it's not too much extra work to sprinkle some extra time on it yeah so I think I think we are getting a little bit more for our money by doing it that way um I don't think like we we we often quite often kind of
00:39:41
you know we'll we'll see a post or we'll be chatting and we'll be ah it'd be great if we did you know I want to do a crus jalopy oh yeah yeah I love how H whatever whatever it is like you there's lots of things that we we talk around between ourselves cuz we like a that'd be super cool and sometimes those things are like actually that' be super cool and it fits and sometimes it's oh that' be super cool we'll put it in the here's a you know the bank of ideas that we could do when we get time when we get to it but say it's a big Balancing Act between what the game needs what what we want to do as as a team um and what we're asked to do from other departments variant uh a great sort of new starter task as well as their their first real meaty project um we talked about this briefl CI and con
00:40:29
that we had lost a lot of people from the team over the like the last year and we've been rebuilding so uh Montreal was their first task were the two cutter variants uh the nurser was someone's first uh project same for the firebird and then there will be more and again they're great things to here's an existing ship you can see how it all works we want you to change XY Z you get to see the whole process get something out the door and then you're ready for like the next big thing start to finish so Montreal did the Cutters and then went on to the Zeus's so the Zees will be their first full start to finish but they ramped up with the cuts now that's another great point that we didn't even include in the how how do we decide what ships you know the idea that you know you can a variant is
00:41:17
a great starter you know task for for a new artist and stuff it's I I would just add to that that it's it's great when the ships sort of you know fairly up toate it's the gold standard passes tend to require like a significant amount of sort of weird cig knowledge I guess I would call it yeah you need a lot of you need a lot of understanding of how our systems work cig knowledge weird cig knowledge you know like just understanding really the in-depth you know stuff of a ship um and how to take it apart and put it back together right um newer stuff you've got like a fresh start I guess or you've got at least something more um something more kind of Tidy to work with or you know more up to date with our like current standards so you know
00:42:07
you're kind of building upon something that's already quite polished whereas if you're taking something that's like quite old you know the standards have changed the way we do things have changed and you kind of have to you know you have to you have to know the good practices toog learn the bad way of doing things you want people to learn the right way of doing things this this is all normal stuff that happens with any game it's just that most games aren't open to the public during the course of a lot of the times you know um if if you go well to be honest even like AAA games now take years and years so it's not even like our live cycle is particularly longing compared to a lot of other games that a third quarter of the scale of what we do but a lot of the time you know you you um develop P pipelining processes and you lock that
00:42:54
in you get to a certain point in that game development and you lock in and go right this is it we're finishing it whereas obviously with our game we have the luxury of constantly evolving our Tech and our pipeline processes and you can hopefully see the improvements with the latest patch as you know some of that stuff's come online it really makes a massive difference to our player base so we absolutely want to be at that kind of cutting edge of of making the best we can um so our processes do change our our quality standards change our visual detail levels change um and yeah we're always trying to push that stuff forward you mentioned the Retaliator gold standard so I got to I I got I got to ask about modularity so modularity was this big concept we introduced back in 2015 I remember was one literally one of
00:43:41
the first comings I ever wrote up as a community manager for the for the project way back when we made a lot of pro promises back then about doing this and doing that and doing this other thing and whatever and then 2016 2017 2018 2019 I mean there's no point in hiding it it's been forever it's been forever now with Invictus now you you say you always add something to every patch uh the modularity thing is the fire started back up um obviously there's not a whole there's not a whole lot of modules that are available before Invictus it's a it's a very small selection but is this the start is this a turning point or is this just here take this and we'll be back in another 8 years with more modularity like what is this so for the most part depending on
00:44:34
there's a couple of different levels of modularity so you you've got the sort of modularity you have with the mpuv where the Pod can detach and attach we we're still not there yet but for something like the uh Galaxy's pods or the Retaliator pods where it's say something you take somewhere to swap out for you we we're now at the stage where we can do that one so so ships moving forward that would have the feature will have it and older ships when we get round to doing the gold standards of those ships we can revisit the the modularity to introduce it to the ships that need it but it it depends on which version so there is still some tech needed but for the base level of being able to swap out the modules inside of the ship that need swapping out we can actually do that one now like you see with the Retaliator right now um it swaps in swaps out you
00:45:23
can get the Torpedoes you can get the cargo it depends what you want to do with the ship so that that's working um big shout out to the team got working all in time works really really well so with the Retaliator in 3231 we we didn't have a chance to talk about it in ISC it's the torpedo module that's that they that they've had in there you can now just be swapped out uh the new module is a cargo module so you turn it into a cargo ship and with the proper grid and everything uh and then the blank base module cuz if you have to pull it out you have you have something to put put in there yeah but it depends which one you got right although people have had the ler for a long time now which was the Retaliator bomber which was the torpedo variant it depends which version they got might have bought the base they might have bought the base with all the different modules it depends what they purchased don't even get me started about the
00:46:09
retaliate bomber with Torpedoes um we changed it it's not torpedo what's can we can we talk about what's next I don't want to no when I'm not going to ask you when but but what what what are the next modules where we've we've shown the drop ship one the drop ship one and the Habs living quarters ones and then again we we've thrown around ideas about other ones we we we talked about doing a um like a hunting we talked about Bounty Hunter one Bounty Hunter yeah like rap cages for going to get uh medical one there Med yeah we could could support a bunch different uh like gameplay features with it um you I don't think you necessarily see uh I don't know like a salvage version or anything so I don't think it's going to be a case of like all of a sudden it becomes
00:46:57
Uber [ __ ] yeah that does does everything I think it still needs to make sense as to what that that vehicle kind of role is actually give it a bomber a bomb dropping mod so would love to yeah yeah I do want to touch quickly on the torpedo one because uh I know there's an issue for some players at the moment who have the bomber one that they're missing their torpedo modules the turbulent and platform are looking into it there's there's a couple hundred accounts for some reason when their pledges got converted from the old bomber to base plus torpedo module did not get the one but that is being looked at so yeah I've seen a few issue counsel things on it but it's been looked at so let's move on to ground Vehicles you know it's not just our spaceships and stuff uh the pulse certainly you you
00:47:46
know changing things for Bunker missions and life inside space stations at the moment did did you did you tell anybody on the mission team you were doing this I mean as John says so the very beginning we send out an email to every uh lead and and design it's not new like when it used to be I remember back in the days OFA people used to get the um X1 PTV and dragonfly inside the airlock and you go down to spawn your ship for the first time and someone just be sat in the middle of the globe on it and and the goal was to make a vehicle that could fit inside everything and success we were thinking more other vehicles but you know it fits inside everything so there are mechanisms that are supposed to sort of limit it and prevent it both short and long term like if someone drove their car around inside here the police are not going to be too happy
00:48:35
about it um I know that there there are currently some issues with ground physics or whatnot the Ura bumping around or bouncing and stuff like this U any joy for this any any hope for this uh it's somewhere between Network and physics looking at because there's a weird update problem where and you can see if you have a load of vehicles next to each other that they all sort of bounce on their suspension at the same time that's being looked at um which doesn't happen in the editor so this again sort of the experience we have when we're developing these vehicles doesn't translate one to one with how it is in the live product frustratingly um people have seen that or hopefully have seen the the fix for that for AI combat recently in the
00:49:23
recent patches that they've gone from being unresponsive at times to probably a bit too responsive now it's the same with ground Vehicles there's still more we want to do with them like compared to spaceships they don't have a huge amount of customization we want to eventually go like upgrading engines gearboxes Wheels swapping your wheels out for different ones with them so they have the similar sort of upgrade path that's exactly what my next question was yeah um but again it comes down to gameplay Engineers do we want to refactor that ground vehicle code because it is a completely separate code path it's still based on a lot of the Original Cry engine arcade vehicle code um even though the the wheel and tire handling is all new from us the underlying system is still sort of separate to vehicles uh talked with Chris a lot about just
00:50:10
unifying them into just a vehicle system but that requires someone to go like rather than this line in the XML that deals with engine parameters is an item now that goes on and drives those wheels so again priorities we want to do it it's just any engineering directors are you going to spend your time on this feature for 10 15 ground Vehicles versus whatever else um are ground vehicles are ground Vehicles as big a priority of spaceships are they are they an afterthought like like how do you I I wanted to touch on this in the priori question but how do you view ground vehicles in the in in the scope of I I think you our our games it's it's a whole universe right like
00:50:59
you've got planets that you need to be able to explore and you've got space you need to be able to explore and you know different players play the game different ways so I think we need to support all aspects of that so from my point of view I love ground vehicles I come from 10 years in racing games so yeah I I definitely want to see more ground Vehicles more variety more uh options and functionality I don't think you can well you there's still there's still space for more I want to want to see my bik it the same we're just about at the status update section so the same time though is because of the fact that the wheel system is the way that is right now we know that every ground vehicle that we make is something we're going to have to go back you have to fix it again it's not even just fix the sort of rework we're talking there to change it from
00:51:49
what currently is to what it would need to be for this whole new system is a massive amount of work so we it it's just like talking about a new right it's the same as talking about all the different modules we we want to do for the Endeavor it's it would be a huge amount of work to go back and change mod so everyone we not just on you you're talking about other teams it's not just us it's a feature team that has to fix the actual wheel so that that's for argument sake say that happens all the vehicles that have made will need to be fixed by us by Tech art by Audio use the new system to use the new system and every extra vehicle we add is more debt that would generate generating for that so don't get wrong we love ground Vehicles like every other vehicle I mean it it is just a vehicle but it's knowing that we are at some point going to have to go back and do
00:52:36
this it's it's just avoiding having to have a the exact sort of situation we have with the staff error where we made a vehicle just to get it out and then had to go back and retrofit a feature into it because the feature had slightly changed from how we made it at the time yeah um Okay so from the chat we've had a couple questions about the medbed responding uh as far as let me just rephrase this a little bit here it says did you change the medbed uh responding just to sell more nurses um David I'm G I'm I'm GNA tank this one because this one actually isn't some for you let's let's do a let's do a space dead light do we have space Dead Light space there we go hi everybody space Dad here uh the question
00:53:26
did you change medbed spawning respawning just to sell more nurses I went and talked to uh uh a design director for squ 42 in the pisan universe Rick Porter he was on the last Star Citizen live you met him along with Rick and Rich and JJ um they were the makers of the original medbed spawning system back when they were just on the actor feature team back then which is about four years ago their intention was for All Med beds to allow spawning and just for some to be at this distance and some to be at this distance that was their original intent it didn't get in at the time because of this that or the other thing it was four years ago but now that they're gone to Squadron and they're back and they're now uh overseeing the development of the persisting universe uh it was one of the first things they wanted to bring back and thus they did now obviously like
00:54:16
anything else that goes into the Precision Universe it'll be tested it'll receive a whole bunch of feedback it'll be adjusted as necessary maybe 50 and 20 is too long maybe it's too short needs to be 70 and 30 maybe it needs to be 30 and 10 and what uh it it's a thing just like anything else that'll be adjusted uh but the one thing that they really wanted me to remind you of is death of a Spaceman death of a Spaceman is coming I'm not going to sit here and say when just other otherwise to say that it's a lot closer now than it ever was at any point in the history of our of our development and death of spaceman will introduce a whole host of difficulties and challenges and detriments to your character should you choose to respond over and over and over again so looking at it through the
00:55:04
context of Star Citizen today is of course natural and proper and you absolutely should and a lot of that feedback that we're seeing is because of how they're looking through it through the lens of Star Citizen today but they are making decisions laning the groundwork for a Star Citizen of tomorrow and the day after and the day after so remember death of a Spaceman you can still read an excellent write up of it on the on the website uh it's still pretty accurate uh I think we're about due for for for an update actually I'll talk to Rick about that and what the current uh intention of design design for that is I mean we do have a big citizen on event maybe we'll do it that that's not a promise that's literally just me thinking off the top of the head that might be a good topic for there uh but yeah keep that in mind uh and that that's coming that's on its way uh if that affects your purchase if you don't want to if you don't
00:55:52
want just consent know that that on its way uh before you buy and uh enjoy uh getting back into the fight even quicker and more consequence free uh for the time being uh but that change is coming so remember that all right let's do that all right we've made people sit through 55 minutes of this we put up a thread at the beginning of the week collecting questions from the backers and every single one there were there were a couple outliers and we worked them into the first half of the show you know uh but almost every question was where's my spaceship where's this where's that where's this other thing and stuff like
00:56:39
this um so we have a so we have a a pretty big reveal uh and stuff but I want I want to talk about set this up uh let's just talk about what's in the current pipeline so that's really what it is cuz cu to be quite Frank if it's not in the current pipeline if it's not being actively worked on right now there is the answer is it's not being actively worked on so we're going to talk about what is being actively worked on and instead of sitting here for the next 15 minutes and saying it's not that it's not that it's not that it's not that we're going to tell you what is being actively worked on and you can infer that if your ship your favorite ship name wasn't in that list and wasn't in this discussion that's about to happen that it's not being actively worked on
00:57:27
and it will when we have time and the schedule and resources to tackle it so John Ben whomever no make Cory do it no on the spot Cory what's actively in development right um so if you go back and look at the citizen con presentation did we had a uh sort of teaser video there was 10 ships in there we're what six months past citizen con now six months to the next one uh we're halfway through those ships now so the five that have not been released from that video they're all in production Yep they're all in production now uh with the exception of the legionaire they should all be within that 12-month window uh legionaire again is going a bit further just because of gameplay the gameplay teams can't support us for when we wanted to do it
00:58:14
originally which is fine um but there is also a lot more than that when we did that video people didn't know about the sulen as well so Sant x1's spirit Hornet Hornet Mar's nura nura was in there Firebird wasn't in there so that wasn't like his 10 ships these are the only 10 ships that we're delivering we're we're doing more than that on the sly as well okay so of ships that people know about obviously some of those ships we haven't revealed yet we have we're not going to sit here and reveal a ship that hasn't been revealed on on the show but of the ships that people know about yeah right now they like they have a name and they're aware it existed they've pledged for it there's two from that video uh and they're pretty much the two that
00:59:01
people know about now the first one is the Zeus so the Zeus es is coming at uh 4.0 uh we did the L zero gate review for that yeah they yesterday uh yeah so that was the one that monreal kind of been working away since they've kind of moved on from the Cutters um and yeah just pass L zero gate review uh smashed it it's looking so good so very very exciting to get that one it's one of those ones that look so terrifyingly good you then have to go look at all the other things that and go we need to we showed it to Chris last week I think it was and he was like setting new standards and we're like that's really really good it's a bit scary but really really good so yeah very very happy so the Zeus is in development the Zeus s is in development that will come first at 4.0 uh the CL is coming after that uh
00:59:51
and then the M will come a bit later okay um I know we're working on a couple variants of existing ships um I think brand approved us to uh reveal there's another there's another saber uh probably the one that people thought the firebird was going to be um it's it's that um that should be soon TM um not given dates uh and then yeah there's some of the other recent releases we'll be getting some variants okay um there's a lot of Resource Network stuff going on that's taking up a whole lot of your time yeah uh there's uh you know going through and retouching every single spaceship that's that's currently in game not all at once you've
01:00:38
got you've got your top 10 you're working it's going in to different pots we like I was saying before we can't partially do it it's a whole new system for how resources get transported around the ship so we can't have some doing it and some not it it it's straight up a redo of the system it would make no sense for some ships to use it and some not it just wouldn't interact correctly ly with each other so we we have a we we've taken the most popular multi cruise ships and they have got a full Resource Network pass where we've physicalized all the components inside the ship so they're all physically there they can be opened up you can see them you can repair them whatever um that's with the top 10 Not Top 10 it's the the most popular it was the top 10 but some of them are variance of each other so we just taken the most popular ones um and everything else still needs a base level pass for Resource Network to actually
01:01:25
allow them to function so it's changes to their loadouts adding the relays and then making sure that they actually function cuz we got to remove the pipe system um we're also using it as an opportunity the what we mentioned at citizen con where we talked about why the uh Zeus had way more Shield generators and everything else we're actually using 4.0 as the opportunity to do those changes so we're actually there's a huge amount of changes to other ships as well with their component numbers and sizes and things the ones mentioned before that will all be physical I um the others they won't be physicalized so they they'll be invisible inside the ship because they be change their load outs and things but that that's not all for 4.0 we're also having to spot other features that are coming online um I won't go into too much details cuz it's other feature teams but it's huge sweeps across all of the ships and we we need to get all that
01:02:14
stuff delivered because as we've had the the the stuff that everyone sort citizen con come down into the Pu it doesn't just magically work we need to actually go in and change the ships to getting to work with that so we did the the markup pass for all of the mini Maps inside the ship so you now get a nice map when you bring it all up but this is all extra stuff that we've spends time and takes resources to do right so the the the Zeus yes two of the Zeus's this year yes the two the two the Ze two of the Zeus is this year that's not an easy thing um a couple variants of existing ships obviously the the the new the the brand new vehicles that folks can always expect to come through
01:03:01
a thing um that we're not going to spoil here uh all that work going back and touching the ex the existing ships and preparing them for Resource Network some of them need their gold standard in order to you come up for for the for the Resource Network that doesn't sound like a whole lot of backlog coming there's something big on the backlog that's taken up a lot of resources maybe missing about eight artists worth of resources okay what's the big thing on the backlog that's coming this year though the pus it's coming sing it very quietly sing it very quiet it it's the Polaris like although people have obviously seen the teasers and trailers and the outside looks very very nice but that that's because that's what we focused on that that one is had some of our like most Talent artists on it to
01:03:50
try and get it to a highest possible standard in time for the actual the flyby and everything uh big shout out to all of our team that's been hours into it um I say I think like Alex Dan Lloyd all kind of smash that exterior obviously we've only shown the exterior or are only showing the exterior so far um the exterior we've we've kind of it it technically is in graybox but obviously visually it's it's far we're we're not we're not talking about the flyby Invictus there's a bunch of chats saying don't we already know that no oh sorry the actual release as well yeah so so we're not we haven't just made the exterior and gone we're we're talking about full flight ready release to the backers they can fly it and use it this year y yes when uh which one of the camera I'm going to recreate what we'd
01:04:38
filmed for ISC that's now redundant that you're looking at this one that one uh so the pois is going to be flight ready fully released at IE this year so I this year not 4.0 not 4.0 but whatever the patch number for for Invictus is and you're ready to go on record for that what happens if don't make it it will come out IE what happens if you don't make it Ben uh well he's my boss it will come out I all right so sorry just before also massive shout out to all the interior guys as well because we've got a whole other bunch of artists that are smashing the interior it's a it's not at the level where we wanted to show it yet um but yeah they are plowing through that work and and it's going to be it's going to be great big ship a lot of rooms yeah you'll see a bit of the interior gray
01:05:27
box on ISC week yeah you'll see you'll see the current status of the interior gray box on ISC next week uh but yeah iae this year obviously that's a huge undertaking Mark you you're going to be a meme after this week's show of just saying it's a lot of work it's a lot of work it's a lot of work it's a lot theis is a lot of work it's what taking up almost half of the UK team yeah just under half the UK art team focusing on it so literally to get to get it done to get done this year that's half the UK art team on it to to to to get it done we've absorbed it as as they like to say in the industry yeah we yeah you've absorbed the additional thing so we've made some efficiencies elsewhere so yeah oh oh yeah massive ones actually shout out to gam and and the Montreal tal team for giving us oil ODS so to summarize for folks before we sign up we're a few
01:06:15
minutes over ships in active development the Polaris yep the two of the Zees two the Zeus's the the the and the the one start with the L the not the liberary the legionaire the legionaire yeah um saber variant some variants some variants that you don't know about and some new ships you don't know but as far as the ships that you know about and stuff those are the ones in active development everything else has no update uh to provide for you right now um that's just me being real with you uh being honest with you and hoping you'll appreciate it so guys thank you thank you so much obviously you've got your work cut out with you with getting the first I know
01:07:02
we we refer to the 890 is a capital ship and St like this but I I I feel like there's something we can argue to the cows come home over what's a capital ship the Polaris is going to be the first kind of nobody can argue that that's not combat capital ship yeah it's got all the capital ship features that it needs to be Capital yeah so so you got you got a big task ahead of you this year uh you're going to do it so thank you so much for your time thank you for being here on the show with us this week I know these aren't always the easiest things to to get through I appreciate you taking the tough questions uh and allowing me to put them towards you um folks uh if you haven't check out this week's ISC uh it revealed the brand new saber Firebird uh which looks super cool and the new nura we're I we all like that name we're goingon to I'm when many back that's
01:07:53
that's debuting it this year uh Invictus uh come back next week next week's ISC is part two of the Invictus we're revealing a brand new uh concept vehicle uh that's that's coming up on at Drake defense conon uh I think I can I already said it so it doesn't really matter whether I could it's it's really cool though like I'm absolutely in love with it I was just talking to gab about it all week and at at Beacon about it uh and then of course we will take that inside look not too loudly what talking to gab we end peacing about it hope it wasn't too loud a conversation no no no okay uh and then of course we'll take a look at the current inside gr boox progress of the of the players uh that you'll see flying around at this year's event so for John for Mark for Ben for Corey I'm Jared take it easy everybody
01:08:41
did you break it don't know okay can you still hear me we'll see you later take care bye by bye

Transcript from YouTube’s automatic captions — punctuation and Star Citizen jargon are approximate. The video itself is hosted by CIG on the official channel.